New 450 Gallon Tank...advice welcomed

frank2005

Member
i just got done custom ordering a 460 gallon tank today and basically its 10 feet long about 3 feet high and 2 and 1/2 feet deep and am going to be setting up a reef tank and was wondering if anyone had any comments or advice from past experiences they would care to share that would make this project a little easier...i just upgraded from a 100 gallon saltwater tank and am excited for this new tank to come in...so any advice comments or questions are greatly appreciated
 

sw65galma

Active Member
I've done my 300...so I know a thing or 2...i'm no expert but I can get ya going in the right direction..
Keep in mind everything is Bigger and way more $$$ especially reef.
If you want to keep SPS corals then you're goona need 20x-30x flow or 9,200gph - 13,800 gph!!
that's some serious horspower for pumps... You're gonna need some closed loop systems, Sump, Fuge, Huge skimmer.
Look to spend another 10K when your all said and done.
Lights 2K
Pumps, Sump, Fuge, wave makers 3K
LiveRock 450Lbs or more 3K
Skimmer, Ca reactor 1K
May or may not need a Chiller 1K
 

frank2005

Member
alright the tank is 10 feet long 3 feet tall and 2 1/2 feet deep the list of everything else that got ordered ill copy and paste down here in a second..
1 120" X 36" X 25" high Glass Tank $3,800.00 $3,800.00
* All edges ground and polished
* 3 overflows
* 8 holes drilled
* Bulkheads included
* Euro-bracing
* Cross Bracing
* 1 year warranty
* Durso drains included
1 Custom Oak Stand and Canopy for tank above $1,800.00 $1,800.00
1 Wire stand for lighting and equipment $250.00 $250.00
including timers for lighting
1 125 gal refugium/sump $275.00 $275.00
1 Mag Drive 1800gph pump $145.00 $145.00
2 Super skimmer needle wheel 220 $180.00 $360.00
1 36 watt Turbo twist UV sterilizer $175.00 $175.00
2 Theo 400 watt heaters $35.00 $70.00
2 Mag Drive 350gph pumps $55.00 $110.00
2 440 watt VHO 3 tube / lamps $160.00 $320.00
4 250 watt Metal Halide / 10,000K bulbs $175.00 $700.00
1 Pre plumb tank and refugium/sump (material & Labor) $200.00 $200.00
thtas all ill be using and also i got moonlights... so yeah the total is 8,205$$$ and this is without live rock and fish but hey money was never an option so i figured im going big :)
 

frank2005

Member
the guy who im ordering all this from said that as long as we have air conditioning it should be fine since its going in a newly added like 40x20 addition that was put on the house...
 

steveb400

New Member
I am not near an expert but since you asked for advise.......
YOU LISTED:
1 36 watt Turbo twist UV sterilizer $175.00 $175.00
2 Theo 400 watt heaters $35.00 $70.00
2 440 watt VHO 3 tube / lamps $160.00 $320.00
4 250 watt Metal Halide / 10,000K bulbs $175.00 $700.00
Your UV is underpowered. ..... I am running an 80 watt on my 400. - Dual 40 watt bulbs
I REALLY do not think you will have any need for a heater at all......let alone 2 of them.......your lights will heat your water.....PLENTY.
The 440 watt VHO should run 4 bulbs.......giving you a total of 8. Personnally I like the A4's from ICECAP. They are the same as the ICECAP 660, with out the dimming capability.....but really.....who is spending that much money on lighting so they can dim it?????? and having 8 VHO's in a 450 is .......maybe adequate. I would add at least 1 more. I may have overkill on my 400 with 16 total VHO - 8 WHite, and 8 Blue.
the 4 250 MH is good.....You might ask your tank man about putting in 2 - 250 and 2 - 400 watt MH.....Not that much more and gives you 2 different light spectrums. I have 2-175, 2-250 and 2-400.
AND THE GUY WHO TOLD YOU THAT YOU WILL NOT NEED A CHILLER.......GET HIS NAME AND ADDRESS AS YOU WILL SOON WANT TO HUNT HIM DOWN AND KILL HIM.......
Good Luck.
 

frank2005

Member
im pretty sure he said "2 440 watt VHO 3 tube / lamps $160.00 $320.00 " were for the refugium so that i can grow mangroves..but im not sure..ill call him and ask him about all the stuff that you listed...thanks...
 

sw65galma

Active Member
I agree 4 Vho's may just be making it.
Those Pumps are gonna be like farting in the wind..
You cannot have a reef with those pumps..sorry, not gonna happen
I have an Iwakiki that'll blow those mags away and that's Still Now where NEAR what you need, I'm add 2 more Little giants for closed loops.
Everything else looks ok.
But you DEFINALETY NO QUESTIONS...NO OPINIONS NEEDED. CANNOT run that tank a nice reef with that 1 pump..
you need 9,000-13,000 GPH!!! You got 3,000!
Ya and smack the guy who said yo won't need a chiller unless you live in Alaska and keep your doors open. I run my tank at 80 with no heaters In New England and thats withOUT the MH.
Have your tank Drilled NOW for closed loops...You'll be glad you did.
Otherwise you're gonne end up with this nice huge tank and have 20 powerheads everywhere.
The skimmer, im not to fond of...welll lets just say it will work...

*on second thought...tell him to take those 2 back and get you an Aqua C or Euroreef, Cuz your gonna run 2 pumps have to keep and eye on 2 waste collections and those will be 1/2 as effecient as the Aqua C or Euroreefs*
Other than the pump situation...You look in good order!
 

birdy

Active Member
I agree with the above posters, you need MAJOR flow through that tank, look at sequence or ampmaster pumps, you need a ton of flow through a closed loop (NOT a ton of flow through the sump).
Also I would go with 400w DE MH, and nothing less, you have a 36" tall tank and nothing but 400watt DE are going to penetrate that deep, unless you just want to keep mushrooms at the bottom of that tank, go with better lighting.
 

sw65galma

Active Member
Heres a fwe pics..I haven't taken any newer ones...But the ones on the side are the closed loops

The bottome Middle is the intakes for the closed loops
The top is the return for the sump into Spray Bars.
 

frank2005

Member
thanks for all your advice guys i decided that im going to set up the tank first and get it running and monitor the temperature...since the room prob wont be above 75 im going to wait on a chiller and if the tank needs one i can get one and stick it in...anyone have any other advice? and the protein skimmers i looked at said they work up to 250 gallons so 2 of them will be good for my 460 gallons i would assume...so like i said anyone else have any advice
 

sw65galma

Active Member
Originally Posted by Frank2005
thanks for all your advice guys i decided that im going to set up the tank first and get it running and monitor the temperature...since the room prob wont be above 75 im going to wait on a chiller and if the tank needs one i can get one and stick it in...anyone have any other advice? and the protein skimmers i looked at said they work up to 250 gallons so 2 of them will be good for my 460 gallons i would assume...so like i said anyone else have any advice
You obvisouly know more than us
...so why bother asking if you don't even take our advice into consideration if it's not what you want to hear.
You want me to tell you, "Hey it's best setup since sliced bread!" will that make you feel better?

Don't take this the wrong way, I wasn't downing your setup at all... But we've all told you what's wrong...and you don't seam to care at all..or think you know more than us..
Skimmer for example....Box says it's for 250gallons...Must be true!! right? They would never Over exagerate that right? What they don't mention is that it's 250gallons with 1 little fish, a very light bio load...but then again every manufacturer measures thiers differently. Just like car amplifiers...You think a 1000w $150 Jensen amp will power a speaker the same way a 1000w $2,000 JL Audio amp would? What they don't tell you is that Jensen amp will put out 1000w for 1 millisecond and if the sun, moon and all the stars are in perfect alignment....Technically they are not lying cuz it will put out 1000w, but only in a perfect environment.
the other thing...Stop thinking you have a 450 gallon tank..if you have a 120 gallon sump, and lets say half that is full...that's 60gallons....so that's 510 gallons... So you want stuff rated at 500galons or larger..always get bigger.
unless it's not filled with water...You got to think of total water volume..
If you put salt in there for 450 gals it's gonna be low..cuz like i said you have 510+ gals of water...Then you have to add like 10 gals for the lines...
You can't Drill your tank after it's full..Once it's full it's set in stone pretty much...Look into closed loops if you want a reef.
But hey you know more than us...

Lastly you have a nice setup...people dream about that sort of stuff, hey I would like to have that...You asked what was NEEDED for a reef and I told you...If you don't belive me there are alteast 3 other reef sites you can post there as well. You can feel free to email me at sw65galma@yahoo.com if you want to know the other forums.
So I do hope you stay around and post the progress as i would personally like to see this.
I love big tanks...I think we all do.
Good Luck.
 

airforceb2

Active Member
Frank,
I have to agree with the other guys. Even if you didn't want a reef tank, your water flow is WAY too low. Even with the lights you have posted...that is nearly 2000W of light. If you turn all of those lights on for a day, you will have the largest algae bloom known to man with a mere 3000GPH. Once the algae starts growing, it is very hard to stop it in that big of a tank.
Also, I have personally never heard of the skimmer you listed. I'm not sure if they would be able to handle your bio load or not but at $180 a piece...it is pretty sketchy. I paid that for my skimmer and it is rated for "under 100 gallons." There are two things in this hobby that you don't want to skimp on...lights and a skimmer. I would look into either a custom-made skimmer or a couple euro-reefs. There are hundreds of companies out there that can take some big acrilic tubes and make a skimmer in no time.
sw65galma has a large tank and is talking to you with experience...something you don't have when it comes to large tanks. Just be open-minded and listen if you ask for advise...none of us like to see people go and spend over $10000 on a tank just to have it crash and not get back on top of the bio load or algae problems. We are here to help, not degrade you.
Good luck to you and hopefully you make the right decision.
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Wow!!!!!!
Don't mean to step on any toes here, but I smell disaster on the horizon as SW65galma and others have stated.....
First the guy who's selling or putting this system together for you needs some help....I'd like to see some other systems he's put together for people and see the progress of the tanks before I'd let him put my next system together for me....Sorry don't mean to be rude, but some of the choices are very odd

I'm building a custom 240 along with a dedicated fishroom so alot of time and thinking is going into my current system.....My tank is custom built with Low E glass and has a center overflow with 3 1 1/2" bulkheads which will drain into a 205 gallon custom acrylic sump built by myself, and the tank is eurobraced and drilled to allow easy plumbing of the OceanMotions so I don't have stuff draping over the top of the tank.....and the tank is drilled for CL with 2" drains as well
The first major problem I see with the setup is that no where is there any listing of an RO/DI unit anywhere......All tanks need this and IMO is a definte requirment before a silly UV sterilizer....So what you have a sterilizer, but your water quality from the start and all water changes could be crap so your UV sterilizer isn't going to do crap for your system.....That is one of the last pieces of equipment I would be spending money on at this point......
Lighting is questionable as well.....with a depth of 3'I would go with 400w MH if using SE bulbs and might get away with DE 250w Mh......But personally I would opt for the 400w MH depending what your planning to keep in the tank, but with that depth you'd be better suited with the 400w MH, your VHO are basically used for supplemental lighting.......
Choice of pumps is very poor.....A Mag Drive 18 won't even ripple to top of the tank
You need to look at pumps alittle closer and come up with a turnover rate for several reasons.....How does this guy even know what flow will go through the overflow then into the custom sump being built etc....??????
Why not look at the Sequence pump lines and I'm more than positive you will be much better suited with an external quality pump....Not saying MD are bad just they aren't for this setup....If you have tons of money why not check out Red Dragons.......
Don't see anything in your custom build or setup as far as supplemental flow inside the tank....You can't rely totally on the sump and return for all your water movement in the tank....You will need to supplement it with something such as an OM, Wavebox, powerheads or such....With the money spent and holes drilled IMO it would be better redesigned to incorporate something for a CL(closed loop) for this tank.......
Skimmer choices seems very poor....I'm not saying running 2 skimmers is a bad idea with alternating cleaning times, so 1 is pulling while the other is coming back up and so...., but don't think skimmer choice is good at all.....Why not look at ASM, EuroReef, Deltec, Bubble King, or if you want raw skimming power look at a Beckett skimmer such as MRC, Barrs, and I forgot to mention ETSS as well.....
Sorry to be rude but your headed for disappointment and disaster with the setup and equipment choices and you'll see shortly that you'll be replacing and spending double the money and tons of junk laying around the garage when things start to come apart on you.......
I also didn't see any mention of any test kits at all????? What is this guy selling you and putting together for you???????
 

frank2005

Member
alright first off about the whole closed loop system...my tank has to pretty much go right against the wall it cant go away from the wall because i dont have a seperate "fish room" so that was never an option so if you give me advice please give me advice on how to upgrade what i have without moving my tank...i was going to order the tank but decided to wait and tell you guys what i decided to change to see if it was okay or not...so first off im changing my protein filter to a EuroReef CS12-2 Protein Skimmer which says it handles a 400 gallon capactiy so if i change to that does that mean i still need 2? second off ive decided to buy a chiller which is the Aqua Logic Cyclone (drop-in) Chiller 1/5 HP CY-2 with Temperature Controller..and third off is im looking for a pump but i cant find any that says 9000-13000 gph which you guys say i need so if anyone can give me the name of a company that produces them ill be grateful...and i never meant to sound like i know it all ..and i was just curious i have 4 overflow kits which have a thing taht pumps the water out so if i just point them all in different directions wont that be enough for waterflow??? so if you can please comment on my changes and see if anything else needs to be changed id appreciate it
 

frank2005

Member
and btw sorry guys i messed up on the measurment it is only 25 inches which is 2 feet 1 inch deep if that makes any differecne with waht you guys said with lighting id like some feedback on that also thanks..
 

frank2005

Member
really sorry one more thing im chaning my uv light to a Aqua UV 120W 2in w/ Wiper UV Sterilizer which says its for up to 350 gallons do you think that is efficient enough because that the largest one i have found...
 

frank2005

Member
oh and another thing i wanted to add that the guy didnt tell us about is this "K2 Pro Calcium Reactor by Advanced Reef Technologies" do you think that is something worth buying?
 

frank2005

Member
btw i already have a ro/do unit i had bought it when i first set up my 100 gallon saltwater tank so i dont need to buy another one although the one i have makes water VERY slowly so if anyone has a "speedier" brand i would like to know about it
 
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