New 55 gallon

[chrisnif]

Hey there everyone, I've read some of this site and it seems to be one of the best for saltwater, so I'll be asking lots of questions in the coming months while I get my 55 gallon together. I have a bit of salt experience, but broke many rules. I had a 20 long with crushed coral, reverse flow UGF, and a simple penguin filter. Started with a domino damsel to break it in then got a snowflake and an undullated trigger (ha i know what your thinking) Ended up with the eel and trigger only and constant fights. Sold it all when i found the eel on the floor.
Here is my overall plan, and PLEASE give me feedback of "NO NO" or 'that's a plan" etc.
55 gallon, typical size, standard T12 2x20W flouro but will probably get upgraded full spectrum or 50/50 bulbs.
I'm going to put in plain old crushed coral, unless that prebagged live sand stuff really is that good?
I dont think i'll do a UGF filter again, and the filter the tank comes with stinks. I'm looking at a HOB skimmer that also has a chamber for some bioballs so that should help out plenty.
I'm hoping to start with 30 or so pounds of dry base rock and then add 10-15 pounds of some pretty live rock and hope everything spreads, which I've heard it will.
I'm really liking the yellow tail blue damsels, and from what i read they stay small so i may get 3-4 of them if i can verify they are okay in groups.
Once the tank is fully cycled I will plan on adding a small school of chromis, a dwarf angel, 2-3 clowns, and maybe a basslet or dotty back.
I also plan on upgrading the lights to 2x54W T5HO later which hopefully will be enough to add some soft corals an anemone for the clowns.
I also plan on adding a sump/refugium at some point in this process as well with an overflow box (not wanting to drill holes myself).
Will a 55 support 4 damsels, dwarf angel, 2-3 clowns, basslet? I'm also interested in a mandarin, but I'll wait until i get a good stock of their food growing in the sand. Do I need to have hermits/snails? Also if the 55 can support the above, is there room in there for a hippo tang or a smaller butterfly or maybe a foxface?
Sorry this was so long, im just counting the days until i can get started!

 

[dbrown9]

i've only had a tank almost two years. thing is with the damsels, you can have more than one. one maybe ok but he will torture the smaller fish. the angel or the tang will hold their own. tangs and butterflys would work in there but only 2 clowns of the same kind. deffinately need snails and crabs to keep it cleaned up. Wouldn't hurt to put in more live rock.

 

[sharkbait35]

I wouldnt add the yellow tail blue damsels they can be somewhat aggressive plus they are a pain every time i stick my hand in my tank they are ready to attack me. As for the school of chromis that would be a great idea maybe a group of 3-4. If you are going to get clownfish you should get a pair and make sure they are the same species. I also noticed you wanted to add a dwarf angel which was the one you wanted to add? If you want to add a manderin make sure thier are alot of copepods for it to eat beacause it is needed in its diet. As for the hippo tang or butterfly fish i would deffinately not add one to your 55. Your tank is way to small to have any tangs or butterfly fish. They will quickly out grow your 55 plus they need alot of swimming space.

 

[chrisnif]

I was thinking about a flame or pygmy angel, or anything else that stays smaller.
Thanks for the info on the clowns, didn't realize they dont get along between different types.
I've read different things about tangs, the hippo in particular I've seen reports that they get 14" and other sites say they max at 8-9" on a home aquarium. Also the butterfly, which would be a late addition once i get the water PERFECT, would likely be a copper banded, which I've read get 6 or so inches. If I'm wrong I'm sorry, thats the main reason I'm here is to make sure i don't buy something that is either going to get too big or be too mean.
Other than Chromis, are there any "peaceful" damsels?
If i cant get butterflys or tangs how about this:
3-4 Chromis school
2-3 non-aggressive damsels
1 Chalk basslet
2 false P. clowns
1 Valentini Puffer
and later the mandarin
I've heard 6-8 fish in a 55, but im mostly looking at smaller fish so hope this would work?
Also is crushed coral okay or is the "live sand" that much better? (besides the obvious quicker cycling)

 

[sharkbait35]

Originally Posted by Chrisnif
http:///forum/post/3149432
I was thinking about a flame or pygmy angel, or anything else that stays smaller.
Thanks for the info on the clowns, didn't realize they dont get along between different types.
I've read different things about tangs, the hippo in particular I've seen reports that they get 14" and other sites say they max at 8-9" on a home aquarium. Also the butterfly, which would be a late addition once i get the water PERFECT, would likely be a copper banded, which I've read get 6 or so inches. If I'm wrong I'm sorry, thats the main reason I'm here is to make sure i don't buy something that is either going to get too big or be too mean.
Other than Chromis, are there any "peaceful" damsels?
If i cant get butterflys or tangs how about this:
3-4 Chromis school
2-3 non-aggressive damsels
1 Chalk basslet
2 false P. clowns
1 Valentini Puffer
and later the mandarin
I've heard 6-8 fish in a 55, but im mostly looking at smaller fish so hope this would work?
Also is crushed coral okay or is the "live sand" that much better? (besides the obvious quicker cycling)
A 55 is to small for a copper band butterfly fish in my opinion. Dont bother with getting any damsels because as they mature they become more aggressive and are a pain to deal with. I dont know much on chalk basslets but if im right they stay small so u can add one if u want. I also think it wouldnt be a great idea adding that puffer beacause your gonna need a clean up crew and most likely the puffer will make a meal of your cleanup crew.

So far i would give an ok to adding the chromis, clowns, pygmy angel, and manderin (as long as their are enough copepods.)I think that should be enough for your stock list. Also I would go with the live sand I have live sand and I think it looks better than crushed coral In my opinion. Also are you planning on making this tank a reef? Or fish only with live rock?

 

[chrisnif]

Im going to be doing FOWLR but have considered at a later point upgrading my lighting to twin T5HO and getting some mushrooms and an anenome that is compatible with the clowns (probably bubble tip, and I know i have to make sure the clowns are okay with that type before i get them).
I just imagine a tank with only chromis a basslet and a mandarin to be "empty" Maybe there are a few more "gentler" fish that i could add? Are there dwarf tangs? or maybe a Klien's butterfly (they grow to 6 inches).
I really appreciate the help.
My last experience was about as "what can you do wrong" as it gets so I want to be sure i do this right this time

 

[louti]

Go with the aragonite sand instead of crushed coral. crushed coral traps more junk in it and some fish do better with sand. It doesn't have lo be live sand. In my opinion it isnt worth the money and doesnt speed things up that much.
You do not need snails, hermits or any other clean up crew, they just help keep the tank clean. So, if you want the puffer or other small predators and are willing to stay on top of the maintenance, go for it.
As far as the damsels, just get the chromis. Any other damsels are just too mean.
Look at some small wrasses, they are neat active fish. I don't see a problem with the foxface personally, but others on here may disagree.
Also, I would go ahead and do a sump/refugium now. You will be able to do a better skimmer and will need the refugium to do a mandarin down the road.

 

[chrisnif]

Thanks Louti,
What does everyone think about this:
Chromis
puffer that stays small
snowflake eel (they get long but are fairly flexible and arent much for swimming so i think if i get the rockwork right the eventual 18 inches wont be an issue)
niger or humu humu trigger (these are the smallest/nicest, and my undulated did okay last time i did salt).
then MAYBE once i verify temperment maybe a wrasse, basslet, hawkfish, or dwarf angel.
I'd be adding most things a bit at a time so if it gets crowded or hard to maintain the water then I'd just stop adding

 

[sharkbait35]

Originally Posted by Chrisnif
http:///forum/post/3149533
Thanks Louti,
What does everyone think about this:
Chromis
puffer that stays small
snowflake eel (they get long but are fairly flexible and arent much for swimming so i think if i get the rockwork right the eventual 18 inches wont be an issue)
niger or humu humu trigger (these are the smallest/nicest, and my undulated did okay last time i did salt).
then MAYBE once i verify temperment maybe a wrasse, basslet, hawkfish, or dwarf angel.
I'd be adding most things a bit at a time so if it gets crowded or hard to maintain the water then I'd just stop adding
I wouldnt add a trigger beacause they will grow and will not have enough swimming space and that 55 plus if u get a cleaner crew it might end up eat them as for the eel if it gets to big it may try to take a bite out of your smaller fish it may even end up eating them. I think it would be ok to add an dwarf angel or a basslet though.

 

[chrisnif]

Thanks sharkbait
Cycle with live rock and "cleaning crew", add chromis, a few weeks later get a wrasse or maybe a small friendly goby, a few weeks later add basslet, few weeks later add dwarf angel.
Also are starfish hard to maintain? I saw a blue one at the LFS some brittle type (not serpent). The guy there told me that if i want more i can just cut off an arm and it will grow back on the one and the arm will grow a whole starfish, but it takes a long time.

 

[snakeblitz33]

We're picture whores. Post pics ASAP.

 

[snakeblitz33]

It amazes me that you can say whores on this forum but not

[hr]
or

[hr]
. lol!

 

[dbrown9]

wrasses are good and hardy, look at the firefish or gobies. i have a purple firefish, pretty fish lots of color

 

[sharkbait35]

Originally Posted by Chrisnif
http:///forum/post/3149637
Thanks sharkbait
Cycle with live rock and "cleaning crew", add chromis, a few weeks later get a wrasse or maybe a small friendly goby, a few weeks later add basslet, few weeks later add dwarf angel.
Also are starfish hard to maintain? I saw a blue one at the LFS some brittle type (not serpent). The guy there told me that if i want more i can just cut off an arm and it will grow back on the one and the arm will grow a whole starfish, but it takes a long time.
Starfish are intolerant of sudden changes in oxygen levels, salinity and pH of the water so if u get a starfish watch for a sudden changes in these levels. Also i dont reccommend you go cutting up the starfish. Even though its arms may regenerate theirs a chance it may also kill the starfish.

 

[chrisnif]

Originally Posted by sharkBait35
http:///forum/post/3149885
Starfish are intolerant of sudden changes in oxygen levels, salinity and pH of the water so if u get a starfish watch for a sudden changes in these levels. Also i dont reccommend you go cutting up the starfish. Even though its arms may regenerate theirs a chance it may also kill the starfish.
You're right about that.
Question for whoever wants to anser Is that live sand sitting on the shelf at the LFS really "Live" I mean im sure it has the bacteria but im guessing from sitting in a bag there isnt much else left right?
How many pounds of sand roughly give me 1 inch in a 55 gallon?
Thanks again folks

 

[reef_dart21]

i have a 45 and about 50lbs and its 3 inches hope that helps

 

[melypr1985]

Originally Posted by Chrisnif
http:///forum/post/3149921
You're right about that.
Question for whoever wants to anser Is that live sand sitting on the shelf at the LFS really "Live" I mean im sure it has the bacteria but im guessing from sitting in a bag there isnt much else left right?
How many pounds of sand roughly give me 1 inch in a 55 gallon?
Thanks again folks
i got most of my critters from my live rock. I bought the bag of live sand on the shelf and I had no problems with it at all in my nano. But i got free live sand from a buddy who was getting out of the hobby for my 90 and that had TONS of critters in it already. Then again you can just get dead sand and seed it with your live rock and all sorts of other methods. I guess it's just your prefference and price.

 

[sharkbait35]

Originally Posted by Chrisnif
http:///forum/post/3149637
Thanks sharkbait
Cycle with live rock and "cleaning crew", add chromis, a few weeks later get a wrasse or maybe a small friendly goby, a few weeks later add basslet, few weeks later add dwarf angel.
Also are starfish hard to maintain? I saw a blue one at the LFS some brittle type (not serpent). The guy there told me that if i want more i can just cut off an arm and it will grow back on the one and the arm will grow a whole starfish, but it takes a long time.
Wait for your tank to cycle out a little before you add your cleaner crew. Also before u can add fish make sure all your levels (nitrates,nitrites,ammonia,ph etc.) are ok. When your levels are ok you can go ahead and add the chromis but I think I would wait on adding the other fish you have listed so to give your tank some time to establish. By the way make sure you quarantine your fish before adding to main tank also your inverts.