New Aquarist interested in advice / suggestions for a SW Predator Tank

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mikewolverine

Guest
Hello SWF Forums,
I'm new to this forum and new to the hobby as well. I grew up with a FW piranha tank and have been fishless for about 10 years. Now I'm looking at seriously getting into the hobby, but before I pull the trigger on a whole setup and fish, i want to make sure I'm doing things right and building a sufficient knowledge base. I'm definitely interested in predators and have been doing a ton of reading lately, but am looking for advice and opinions to ensure my ideas are feasible. I've spoken to my LFS, who feel I'm being reasonable and doing things right, but more opinions are always better, so here goes.
I'm currently only interested in a fish only tank, so no live rock / corals / plants.
I'd like to get the following fish to satisfy my interests and my girlfriend's as well:
- Fimbriated Moray Eel (aka: Yellowhead Moray, Cheetah Moray)
- Lionfish
- Angelfish
- 1 more undecided, possibly a Trigger?
- Snails
I'm looking at / negotiating with a guy on:
- 125g used glass tank with full stand
- Custom light canopy (50/50 Atinic Florescent and nighttime LEDs)
- 3 x 200w Heaters
- Fluval 302 Filter
- Eheim G90 Filter
- Maxia Air Pump
- Powerhead with Micron Quick Filter
I'd like opinions on how solid this setup would/could be given what I'm looking at for fish...
If this deal falls through, I'll be looking at similar alternatives given that I feel 125g seems a reasonable size for what I'm hoping to eventually acquire.
I know that it would likely be a good idea to go with a protein skimmer and UV Filter as well...
Anyway, looking for all your knowledge and expertise!
Thanks & Cheers,
-Mike
 
jay0705

jay0705

Well-Known Member
Ok let's see. You will hear varying reports on canister filters in general.buying a used one idk about. You say 3 200w heaters what kind and how old?. Iam not saying don't buy used,but with the money you will invest in this hobby it may be worth the extra cost to buy new. Your fish selection is mostly ok. The angel could b an issue. You'd need one of the large angels the problem is they can get aggressive w age. Your lion is a predator yes but not"aggressive" per say. They can actually get picked on by other fish. Ie triggers and sum angels. Finally I run a fowlr tank. I like fish not into the corals and such however u stated u didn't want live rock. This in my option is the single biggest stride in sw tank keeping. Its not just colorful and food producing for sum fish. Its a huge biological filter. Some people use lr as there filter and that's all! Powerheads to move the water and lr to filter it. I don't go that far but id suggest u get at least some high quality lr
 
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mikewolverine

Guest
Alright, I didn't realize the benefits of LR were that great, but I'm open to it for sure, perhaps my biggest barrier here is merely my understanding of LR...
I'm open to buying some new parts / pieces as well, but am certainly looking to save $$$ where possible...
My "goal fish" is the eel, although I love the others too...
Thanks & Cheers,
-Mike
 
jay0705

jay0705

Well-Known Member
Ok the eel I have little knowledge on. I've kept lions and alot of people do combine them. There are alot of benefits to lr. Now u may see that you need a pound per gallon. While u really can't have too much, iam not saying you need 125lbs of rock. I have about 45lbs in my 75. I add a small piece here and there but that's too add fresh food for my angel and fox to snack on. In your case once u get maybe 50lbs your good. It also in my option helps w cycling the tank
 
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mikewolverine

Guest
Excellent, then a pile of LR will definitely be included into the tank. Ideally, I'd like to make 2 piles, one at either end with mostly open space in the middle.
Is my tank size good or with that few fish, is smaller possible or worth looking at?
Thanks again!
-Mike
 
jay0705

jay0705

Well-Known Member
It depends. If u want an angel then your 125 is good. The bigger your tank is the more stable they tend to be. What is your eels adult length? Also the eel will enjoy the lr to hide and rest in.
 
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mikewolverine

Guest
The adult fully grown fimbriated eels reach about 30" in length but apparently are notorious piscinovores...so i was thinking the larger tank may give each fish their room to avoid too many run ins...
 
jay0705

jay0705

Well-Known Member
Agreed. There still isn't any guarantees but the extra room will help. Keeping it well fed should help w aggression as well. With the small amount of fish you want,you can prob go w o a skimmer too.
 
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mikewolverine

Guest
Really hmmm...skipping the skimmer would certainly save a wad of $$$...you really think it's possible despite having the messy eating eel? What about a sump? I've heard mixed comments as to whether or not one would be necessary?
I'm trying to read like a mad man, but feel a little overwhelmed about everything I may need to start this up...
Thanks & Cheers,
-Mike
 
jay0705

jay0705

Well-Known Member
Ha ha ha oh there is a ton of info out there. The skimmer is def not something you'd need rt away at least.I don't use one. I may at some point but to this point I haven't needed one.I do weekly small water changes so that seems to do the trick
 
sweatervest13

sweatervest13

Active Member
Hi there Mike,
Welcome to the site and the hobby.
First I want to say that there are lots of different ways of doing things in the SW hobby. So take all advice with a grain of salt and make sure you do your own research. It takes a lot of reading up on the animals you want to keep, and you just don't what to keep them alive but you want them to thrive.
Just like Jay said LR is/was a game changer for SW aquarists. It is your biological filter and it does most of the work. Read up on mechanical and chemical filtration to get more info. A lot of successful hobbyists use a combo of all three. But there are some that just use a lot of live rock and a ton of flow.
I am a huge fan of sumps for SW tanks, even for FOWLR (fish only with live rock) tanks. They are great for hiding equipment, adding extra water volume, in sump skimmers, and refugium's with macro algae. I would not have a SW tank without a sump that has a skimmer and refugium with macro algae. Can it be done with out it... It sure can!! I can also drive backwards to work everyday, but I decided long ago that that would not be the best way to do it.

So, I would recommend looking into a sump and I highly suggest a skimmer (Jay is totally right, you don't need it right away so it is not a must have to start, but planing on adding one within 2-3 months is a very good idea). If the deal you are working does fall through, look into a Reef Ready tank. This is a pre-drilled tank with a built in overflow to get water to and from the sump tank. I did CL thing and bought a 125g tank for a good deal. I ended up reselling it on CL and buying a brand new custom RR 125g for just a little more money. The tank is really one of the cheaper things on a nice SW setup. I am not a fan of UV sterilizers, they don't do much. IMO setting up a nice QT (quarantine tank) will do you much better then setting up a UV system.
As for your stock list.
IDK too much about the predator fish, but the fish you listed are pretty big. Large angels need a BIG tank. Most will need at least a 220g tank. There are a few of the smaller large angels that can fit into a 125g but the super pretty ones need 220g+ (sorry). Triggers and lions don't mix well (trigger's nip at the lions). I don't think that any snail would fair very well with your stock list.
 
jay0705

jay0705

Well-Known Member
Excellent thanks sweater. I was hoping somebody would chime in w sumps. Idk much about them myself. Also the pre drilled tank is an excellent idea. I was looking at one yest lol
 
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mikewolverine

Guest
Thank you guys, i appreciate the info re: sumps and skimmers! What should I be expect my start up costs to be for 125g and what can i expect for average monthly costs?
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay0705 http:///t/395420/new-aquarist-interested-in-advice-suggestions-for-a-sw-predator-tank#post_3520423
start up varies prob 200-350 range. salt sand ect
Start up for $200-$350.00 ... I don't see how that would be possible.
Hello Mikewolverine, welcome to the site.
Live rock costs an average of $7.00 to $10.00 a pound and on a 125g tank you need at least 75 to 100 pounds of rock. Even if you buy base rock ($4.00 per pound) and only a few pieces of live rock. You would already be above that budget.
A bucket of salt runs $40.00
To have a 2" sand bed for a 125g costs around $80.00 and that's getting it really cheap.
Even the cheapest power head on the market from ***** is $40.00 and you will need at least 3 of them....I'm sure you get where I'm going with this.
You might be able to find somebody who is getting out of the hobby and purchase their equipment. Still you will pay around $800.00 to $1000.00...no where near $200.00 to $350.00 range.
 
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mikewolverine

Guest
Well the gear i mentioned way back in first post is used and is currently asking $750.00 or best offer...ill try and attach a url link...
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikewolverine http:///t/395420/new-aquarist-interested-in-advice-suggestions-for-a-sw-predator-tank#post_3520429
Here's the add link, any advice or comments are always welcome! I'm trying to learn and absorb everything I can right now!
http://www.usedottawa.com/classified-ad/125-Gallon-Package---Everything-you-need_19485517
Hi,
That looks like a freshwater set up...at least the fish in the picture looks freshwater...but I'm no expert. LOL...I hate the rock setup...and I'm glad you have something different planned.
We are not allowed to put links up from other stores...but since it's a used site I don't know for certain. I hope the watchers understand since you are new to the site if it's against the rules.
First...the lighting is perfect for fish only, the 50/50 will make their colors pop much better then regular fish lights. Crushed coral is IMO not a good substrate, it's hard for the CUC (clean up crew) to keep up and you will have to manually vacuum it. If you use reef sand you would be much better off...so I would not use what is in there now.
Second...I hope somebody chimes in about lava rock, I don't know anything about it. Saltwater rock is different then freshwater rock. However there are no power heads. A power head is to create the wave, the wave is the life of the ocean and your SW tank, it isn't a filter. You won't need the air pump unless you are going to keep seahorses. No air lines go in a SW tank (another clue the seller has the tank as FW)
The Fluval 302 is way underpowered for that size tank....I had a Fluval 305 and a cascade filter on my 90g...so a 302 Fluval, and a power head run filter will not be enough for a 125g SW tank.
So in the end the only usable thing on that setup is the tank, stand and hood with the lights. I think you can get a better deal, then $750.00
 
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mikewolverine

Guest
Hmmm that is kinda what I was thinking as well...and for that price I could get a new tank...
So to start up all I need is a tank, filter, heater and some LR correct? Then down the road add a protein skimmer and possibly a sump...
Thanks,
-Mike
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
You said that your grail fish was an eel. Do some internet research on how to build a tunnel system for eels using PVC buried in the sand bed - very neat idea, and your eel will be happy, and visible to you. Also, eels are escape artists (I remember chasing a blue ribbon eel across the room with a pair of spaghetti tongs
) You will need a tight cover for your tank - either glass or my preference) egg crate, but only if the eel is wide enough to not fit through the grid.Otherwise, if it fits, you will need a pair of spaghetti tongs.
 
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