New fish experience immediate problems and death in new marine tank...

jzoerman

jzoerman

New Member
Hello All,
I have setup a marine tank in my garage to keep bait-fish, primarily pinfish. I setup this tank a week or so ago and have tested the water. When adding perfectly healthy fish to the tank they begin swimming upside down within hours and die. Larger fish last a day or so (swimming upside down) before they die. Small fish die within hours. I have tested for ammonia and nitrite, both zero. Salinity is the same as the water they came from and pH is around 8.2.
Any ideas what could cause such immediate and drastic deterioration of these fish, especially for such a hardy fish?
Thanks in advance,
JZ
 
btldreef

btldreef

Moderator
sounds like there's some sort of toxin in the water. What did you clean the tank with? What's the temperature? There also might not be enough oxygen in the water.
What test kits are you using?
 
jzoerman

jzoerman

New Member
I did clean the tank and parts with Isopropyl Alcohol (91%) and let everything dry before using. Temp is 77 F, definitely no shortage of oxygen. I actually wondered if the problem was too much air but discovered it couldn't be that. Test kits are “Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc”, pH, ammonia and nitrite are the tests I used.
When I set this tank up this first time I used water straight from the Gulf of Mexico. I tore it down last week and set back up with “Instant Ocean” sea salt and filtered tap water. Added a second air pump, a second filter and omitted the substrate (previously sand) this time around.
The thought that came to mind these fish are acting like I am dumping them in poison, with such quick and severe reactions they are having...
Thanks for your feedback,
JZ
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Something provoking severe and immediate response makes me wonder about electricity. Do you happen to have a photo of your system? What equipment are you running? And may I ask if your filtration system removes chlormines?
 
lngliv3

lngliv3

Member
I see you said you have this tank set up in your garage ...Is it a attached garage (to your house) do you park a car in the garage ,lawnmower , motorcycle. I am wondering if you are getting some kind of off gassing from petroleum fired . The fumes however small might cause a issue....
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by lngliv3 http:///t/391476/new-fish-experience-immediate-problems-and-death-in-new-marine-tank#post_3471898
I see you said you have this tank set up in your garage ...Is it a attached garage (to your house) do you park a car in the garage ,lawnmower , motorcycle. I am wondering if you are getting some kind of off gassing from petroleum fired . The fumes however small might cause a issue....
Yep, garages are often a place where volatile organic compounds can be kept or expelled into their environment. xX Fish PoisonsXx
 
jzoerman

jzoerman

New Member
I will take a couple pictures and upload them after my camera battery charges a bit. I do not know if the tap filter removes chloramines, nor if the tank filters do. The equipment: 1 AquaClear 50 filter and 1 Aqueon 20 filter, 1 Top Fin 3000 air pump and 1 Top Fin 1000 air pump on a 20 gal tank. As mentioned earlier, water was made from Instant Ocean and filtered tap. No substrate.
The garage is attached but not used for motor vehicles.
I should mention something interesting I observed today. I scooped up some fish from the bait tank and went fishing, keeping them in a live well. This morning when I took them out they were all floating at the top of the tank, alive, but upside down. I returned from fishing with 3 fish and noticed 2 of them were swimming normally once again. Threw them back in the bait tank where 2 of the 3 swam normally for an hour or so and sure enough back upside down again.
I used isopropyl alcohol (91%) and no I did not rinse, I simply let it evaporate. I build my own computers and use isopropyl alcohol to clean parts because it leaves nothing behind which is the logic that led me to clean the tank and parts with it...
JZ
 
jzoerman

jzoerman

New Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/391476/new-fish-experience-immediate-problems-and-death-in-new-marine-tank#post_3471893
Something provoking severe and immediate response makes me wonder about electricity. Do you happen to have a photo of your system? What equipment are you running? And may I ask if your filtration system removes chlormines?
Pics: https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/gallery/album/view/id/188229/user_id/91985
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTLDreef http:///t/391476/new-fish-experience-immediate-problems-and-death-in-new-marine-tank#post_3471917
I think the alcohol is in fact the culprit here.
I was starting to think that also, but I do not understand how that could be...
JZ
 
jzoerman

jzoerman

New Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///t/391476/new-fish-experience-immediate-problems-and-death-in-new-marine-tank#post_3471921
Did you use alcohol in that bait tank too? What's causing all the foam????
The foam just started, wasn't there until now. The constant back and forth with so many different fish? Yes, I sprayed the alcohol everywhere...
The more I think about it, there is all sorts of nooks and crannies the alcohol could have pooled in. BTLDreef, you may very well have found the culprit. Guess I will tear it down again and start over and of course be sure to give it a good rinse! Thanks for all the input, I will post the results...
JZ
 
jzoerman

jzoerman

New Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/391476/new-fish-experience-immediate-problems-and-death-in-new-marine-tank#post_3471924
Acclimation procedure?
Biofilter?
How old are the test kits?
Never an acclimation procedure, I realize that would be best but past experiences yielded nothing like the results I am experiencing now.
I know the bio filters have not had time to kick in and the test kits are indeed very old. Given the current circumstances I did not expect them to live indefinitely, that is until the bios kicked in. However, I have never seen them react so adversely so quickly. I've handled thousands of these fish and witnessed what they can handle, something is very very wrong with the water..
JZ
 
btldreef

btldreef

Moderator
If the test kits are old, they're inaccurate.
Still going with the alcohol on this one. That combined with no bio filtration/old test kits and it's just not good. That being said, they're bait fish, the lack of a bio filter should not have killed them this quickly and the fact that you have them swimming well in a bait well, but not once they're back in this tank just screams out to me that there's something going on in this tank alone. I really think it's the alcohol.
 
jzoerman

jzoerman

New Member
Assuming alcohol is the main culprit, can I rinse the carbon and bio stones or should I replace them entirely?
Thanks for the heads up on the old test kits..
 
btldreef

btldreef

Moderator
I would probably just replace them just to be on the safe side at this point. Don't want the same issue again. At least with the carbon, at this point, it's contaminated, so it has to go.
API kits are no good after a year of use. For what you're using the tank for, I wouldn't worry about going out and buying an entire new test kit. Strips will work for you. I'm not a fan of strips, but Microbe-Lift test strips are accurate from what I've seen thus far. They're really easy to use as well. I've only used the "Test 3" saltwater strips, which test alkalinity, nitrite and pH, but all three of those numbers came back comparable to my other kits. Then you can just buy an individual ammonia test kit.
 
jzoerman

jzoerman

New Member
Thanks everyone for all the feedback, I really appreciate it! BTLDreef, I will be taking your advice and will post the results..
Thanks a bunch for all the info...
JZ
 
jzoerman

jzoerman

New Member
I threw out the old test kits and bought news ones, they were indeed no good at all, giving false results. The culprit is extremely high ammonia levels, not even close to being on the chart. A few days earlier (days after new tank setup) I piled a bunch of fish in the tank. Though I used the fish before those got sick they left plenty of waste behind skyrocketing the ammonia levels.
Thanks guys for the heads up, I don't know how long it would have been before I discovered the old test kits were no good.
JZ
 
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