New gun law?

[fishkiller]

So I heard California is thinking of adopting a law that is already active in Utah. Citizens can carry guns (with a concealed weapons permit) onto school property, which means people are carrying to class. It may just be me, but that sounds kinda odd. Don't get me wrong, I believe in the firearm freedoms as much as any red blooded American, but I would feel a little strange with my HK on my hip in the middle of class. "Hey can borrow a pen?" "Yeah man, just reach in my bag, behind the .44 mag".... Right...

 

[farslayer]

Heh, that's a good one Yeah, I have a serious problem with it, but that's what the pundits are good at, sensationalizing every event which helps their own little cause.

 

[sharkboy13]

but from what ive heard CA has pretty tight laws on firearms, u can have like some handguns, they have to have like 6 diff safety mechanisms, not only can i not have a 10 magazine clip but it cant accept 10 magazine clip (sry if im using incorrect grammar gun gurus, im fairly new to this) but to me it all sounds like columbine happenin again

 

[farslayer]

Well, I think it is more out of fear than anything else. The VA Tech massacre was horrendous, and it's scared people into believe the schools aren't safe. The fact is, if you remove all emotion and look at it from a cold, logical stance, people would find that on average schools are very safe. For every VA Tech, there are thousands and thousands of schools which did not have such a tragedy. Some people tend to view one horrible situation as the norm instead of an extremely terrible exception. Those types of attacks don't happen daily, even yearly, columbine was many years ago. And it will happen again, regardless of what we do. But on the norm, these things don't happen. Again, though, it was terrible. I live in WV, near where VA Tech is located, and it was not a glad day for us.

 

[pontius]

you heard wrong. it's South Carolina, not California. California will be at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean before you'll ever see any such law as that passed there.
it needs to be looked at closely, but overall, is SOUNDS like a good idea. afterall, a law abiding citizen never shot up a school, did they? if one of those professors or students had been strapped, Cho might've that a lot longer before deciding to go berserk.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Farslayer
Well, I think it is more out of fear than anything else. The VA Tech massacre was horrendous, and it's scared people into believe the schools aren't safe. The fact is, if you remove all emotion and look at it from a cold, logical stance, people would find that on average schools are very safe. For every VA Tech, there are thousands and thousands of schools which did not have such a tragedy. Some people tend to view one horrible situation as the norm instead of an extremely terrible exception. Those types of attacks don't happen daily, even yearly, columbine was many years ago. And it will happen again, regardless of what we do. But on the norm, these things don't happen. Again, though, it was terrible. I live in WV, near where VA Tech is located, and it was not a glad day for us.
generally, colleges are much safer than high schools, so it's really not going to change much because high school students aren't going to be able to carry guns into school anyway.

 

[farslayer]

And high school students shouldn't be carrying guns, nor should college students.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Farslayer
And high school students shouldn't be carrying guns, nor should college students.
you're right about high school students, but why not college students? you have to be 21 years or older to buy a handgun, which means you'd likely be a junior or senior in college or a professor. what makes a school so special that you shouldn't be able to carry a gun into a school for protection against whackos? again, it's not the law abiding citizens that are killing innocent peope.

 

[farslayer]

Guns are not appropriate on school property. It is not true that law abiding citizens don't shoot people. Out of curiosity, did they ever show a criminal history for Cho? I never saw, but they sure showed everything else of his. I'm not going to go in to teach a class and have to worry about my students packing heat so to speak. And you never know if those college students abide the law, that's an assumption which is not safe. We've had arrests on our campus before. One student was actually arrested for bringing a firearm on school property several years ago. We saw her with it in her purse, and of course people panicked.

 

[farslayer]

But, if a college student wanted to own a gun then that is fine, provided it is not on school property.

 

[fishkiller]

Actually, you only need to be 21 to purchase a handgun from a licensed dealer. I've carried handguns since I was 18. I didn't even know that until a cop ran my Sig's numbers after an incident involving me drawing down on a person in traffic when I was 19- self defense of coarse.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Farslayer
Guns are not appropriate on school property. It is not true that law abiding citizens don't shoot people. Out of curiosity, did they ever show a criminal history for Cho? I never saw, but they sure showed everything else of his. I'm not going to go in to teach a class and have to worry about my students packing heat so to speak. And you never know if those college students abide the law, that's an assumption which is not safe. We've had arrests on our campus before. One student was actually arrested for bringing a firearm on school property several years ago. We saw her with it in her purse, and of course people panicked.
your statement that "guns are not appropriate on school property", what evidence do you have to back that up? has Utah had a school shooting since that law was passed? gun ownership is a responsibility, and there's no reason that I can see why a law abiding person who lives up to that responsibility
should not be able to take a gun into a college classroom. youre talking about Cho, but Cho clearly is not representative of 99.99999% of college students, so that's a moot point.
the girl you said was arrested for having a gun in school (I assume it was a college?), other than having a gun on school property, what law was she breaking exactly?

 

[farslayer]

Uh, ok, so let's see, it is acceptable to have loaded weapons in a classroom. Interesting. So if Cho does not represent that figure you gave, why would we need guns? Oh, and the law being broken was that funny federal law about firearms on state property. Maybe we should have armed congressmen and lawyers too. Perhaps we should let defendants and plaintiffs walk into court with weapons. I'd be curious to see if any professors support your view, I know those here don't.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by fishkiller
Actually, you only need to be 21 to purchase a handgun from a licensed dealer. I've carried handguns since I was 18. I didn't even know that until a cop ran my Sig's numbers after an incident involving me drawing down on a person in traffic when I was 19- self defense of coarse.
of course you can buy a handgun from some joe schmo off the street, but you'd be breaking the law. the federal law says 21 years old.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Farslayer
Uh, ok, so let's see, it is acceptable to have loaded weapons in a classroom. Interesting. So if Cho does not represent that figure you gave, why would we need guns? Oh, and the law being broken was that funny federal law about firearms on state property. Maybe we should have armed congressmen and lawyers too. Perhaps we should let defendants and plaintiffs walk into court with weapons. I'd be curious to see if any professors support your view, I know those here don't.
as far as I know, there is no federal law concerning carrying weapons on state property. if that even exists, can you show that to me somewhere? in fact, Utah's law wouldn't be lawful if what you're saying is true. when you said the girl was arrested, was she arrested by federal officials or local officials? if it was local officials, then she obviously didn't violate a federal law.
there IS a federal law that says someone under indictment can't carry a gun, so that does away with defendants carrying guns to court. if you're talking about STATE court, that should be up to the state government, not the federal government. I believe that in most states, only court officials can carry guns into court. lawyers and judges can and often do carry guns into court here, and as far as I know, there hasn't been a courtroom shooting here.
the whole thing really doesn't have anything to do with Cho. because if a person is legally possessing a gun inside a school, there's really not much reason why you'd ever even know they had a gun with them. if the brandish the gun without any justifiable cause, there are laws in place to punish them.
so again, what's the problem? if someone wants to ILLEGALLY take a gun into school, they'll do so. so why can someone not LEGALLY take a gun into school.
I can see why a gun would not be allowed on an airplane, in a prison or jail, in court, possessed by minors, but I've yet to see any good reason why they'd not be allowed into a college.

 

[socal57che]

Originally Posted by Farslayer
Maybe we should have armed congressmen ..... too.
As I'm sure you are aware, Diane Feinstein has fought diligently to remove firearms from citizens of California yet she feels the need for a CCW (openly admitted to having a CCW permit) regarding her own safety. So I guess that our elected officials are a step ahead of you.
As for the statement that "It is not true that law abiding citizens don't shoot people.", you contradict yourself. If you shoot someone (assuming it is not self defense or the defense of another) you just got removed from the law abiding citizen list.
If one single person had been afforded the right to defend him/herself while in class many parents would still have their children today.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by socal57che
If one single person had been afforded the right to defend him/herself while in class many parents would still have their children today.
that is exactly right. it's called levelling the playing field. someone who is going to go in and shoot up a school is not playing by the rules. but they're saying that innocent people MUST play by the rules and allow themselves to be a sitting duck for a whacko.
let's say college residential advisors (these are basically people who are charged with keeping students safe in dorms) were junior or senior students who responsibly carried guns. well guess what, the first person Cho encountered and killed was a residential advisor. if that R.A. had been carrying a gun, that could've been 33 people that would not have died.

 

[aw2x3]

Originally Posted by fishkiller
Actually, you only need to be 21 to purchase a handgun from a licensed dealer. I've carried handguns since I was 18. I didn't even know that until a cop ran my Sig's numbers after an incident involving me drawing down on a person in traffic when I was 19- self defense of coarse.
Strange that you say this took place because according to Georgia State Code 16-11-129: "No License shall be granted to any person who: #10. Is under 21 years of age." Your profile says you are from Georgia.
So, I highly, highly doubt that any cop stopped you, because of said incident, ran your Sig's numbers and then gave your firearm back...when you were only 19 years old.

 

[fishkiller]

Though this has been discussed beyond the scope I expected, to defend my statement, I had been told by every law enforcement officer who checked my guns almost every time I was pulled over that there was no problem with me posessing
handguns in my vehicle. I was pulled over MANY times before I was 21, and had my guns checked by the cop almost every time. Many of them did not even want to see them after me telling them that I had firearms in the car. That's always the first thing I tell em. If it IS illegal for someone under 21 to have a pistol, then I must be a real smooth talker.

 

[fishkiller]

AW2x3- I never said I had a Concealed carry permit under 21. I know that, but you do not need a permit to carry in your glove box.