New hobbyist- need help with pH

mykgillespie

mykgillespie

Member
Sorry TG4F,
I live in N.H. may be a little too far to travel! Anyway, I like the Kent brands, check out www.thatpetplace.com and find the one that best suits your needs they have pretty good descriptions right on the site or you can contact them directly for more detailed info. There are many different brands for this test, I use the one from Tetra, no particular reason for this over another, it's just what I got with my first salt tank 14 years ago and have been using it ever since. I guess just familiarity.
Later,
Myk.
Oops:D , I should probably clairify.........I haven't been using the same test kit ever since, I have bought new ones. The brand ever since is what I meant!:) Later.
 
thankgod4fish

thankgod4fish

Member
Would high harness account for solid deposits on the aquarium walls? A sort of film starts to develop in small patches every few days. It's so hard, an algae scraper hardly takes it off... I have to scrape it off with a razor.
 
jtroutine

jtroutine

Member
my opinion would be to start over again with ro water from your local super market, at my grocery store it goes for .30 cents a gallon. I think that might get you where you want to be with a little less headache. I would recomend to forget the bubbles for a sw tank. Possibly pick a good book from a lfs. Make sure that it is a recently puplished so you can learn about the latest equipment. I am still learning a lot but these are some of things that have proven succesfull for me
Later
joe
 
thankgod4fish

thankgod4fish

Member
Myk, tested my water's KH today. I think it's too high.... tested for 268.5 ppm KH (15 dkh) on the aquarium water and 161.1 on the tap (9 dkh) (using Aquarium Pharmaceuticals KH test). What am i to do??!! I saw a tap water purifier at *****, I believe, which claims to
"remove all dissolved minerals, including calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium, sulfate, chloride, carbonate, fluoride; all heavy metals including copper, zinc, lead, iron, cadmium, and manganese; algae-promoting nutrients including phosphate, nitrate, ammonia, silicate, and nitrate; chlorine and chloramine; radon; and organic pollutants including insecticides, herbicides, PCBs, pesticides, gasoline, fuel oil and agricultural and industrial pollutants. The Tap Water Purifier filters ten gallons of water per hour. Each cartridge purifies an average of 50-150 gallons of water, depending on the mineral content of your tap water. pH can be easily adjusted from 5.5 to 8.0. Water hardness can be easily adjusted from 0 ppm to 300 ppm."
I'm thinking just buy this and start the whole damn thing all over. What do you think?
Actually, according to the insert info for Tetratest KH, the KH should be 8 dkh. My tap is at 9. I supposed the best thing to do is to start over and try and lower it by 1 dkh.
 
mykgillespie

mykgillespie

Member
Good work on that TG4F,
With a dKH of 15 in the tank pH shouldn't be low. There must be something pulling the pH down. Out of curiosity, is there anything in the tank that could be pulling the pH down? Might try taking a handful of your substrate and placing it in a container with purified water to see what effect it has on pH. Test your purified before adding the substrate as the purified water will have a tendency to be slightly acidic due to gases in the air. I'm not that good with chemistry, but the other option could be something from the tap making the pull down despite the high KH. Do you drink your tap water? Might consider getting a Brita!
Either way, a purifier is the way to go with all the water that goes into the tank. The Tap Water Purifier that you mention will do an excellent job of purifying the water, but will be very costly for you, especially with the levels you mention in your tap. Basically the Tap Water Purifier is a mixed bed DI unit. If you take an RO/DI system and pull the RO out that's what this is. Without the RO the resin is forced to pull out EVERYTHING and will be exhausted very quickly, so even though it's cheaper initially, it's a much better idea to go with an actual RO/DI system. You may wish to start over, but you can just make partial water changes and the KH will dilute over time once you start using the purified. You shouldn't have any problems with your salt, I've used many brands, Red Sea, Coralife, Kent, Instant Ocean, and Tropic Marin in my clients tanks from cichlids to reefs and not seen any real major differences, although I typically will purchase Instant Ocean. To be honest, I just get whatever is on sale or the best price. I just prefer the Inst.Ocn. because it mixes clear faster and the buckets that the 200 Gal. mix size comes in is air tight, you'll find this to be very important if you haven't had to deal with a solid chunk of salt (more like concrete!) yet after getting a little water on it! Long story short......buy a name brand synthetic sea salt and buy a RO/DI, SAVE THAT MONEY!!!
Also, let me know about that substrate test and get me a list of everything that's in your tank. Talk to you soon.
Later,
Myk.
 
mykgillespie

mykgillespie

Member
Good work on that TG4F,
With a dKH of 15 in the tank pH shouldn't be low. There must be something pulling the pH down. Out of curiosity, is there anything in the tank that could be pulling the pH down? Might try taking a handful of your substrate and placing it in a container with purified water to see what effect it has on pH. Test your purified before adding the substrate as the purified water will have a tendency to be slightly acidic due to gases in the air. I'm not that good with chemistry, but the other option could be something from the tap making the pull down despite the high KH. Do you drink your tap water? Might consider getting a Brita!
Either way, a purifier is the way to go with all the water that goes into the tank. The Tap Water Purifier that you mention will do an excellent job of purifying the water, but will be very costly for you, especially with the levels you mention in your tap. Basically the Tap Water Purifier is a mixed bed DI unit. If you take an RO/DI system and pull the RO out that's what this is. Without the RO the resin is forced to pull out EVERYTHING and will be exhausted very quickly, so even though it's cheaper initially, it's a much better idea to go with an actual RO/DI system. You may wish to start over, but you can just make partial water changes and the KH will dilute over time once you start using the purified. You shouldn't have any problems with your salt, I've used many brands, Red Sea, Coralife, Kent, Instant Ocean, and Tropic Marin in my clients tanks from cichlids to reefs and not seen any real major differences, although I typically will purchase Instant Ocean. To be honest, I just get whatever is on sale or the best price. I just prefer the Inst.Ocn. because it mixes clear faster and the buckets that the 200 Gal. mix size comes in is air tight, you'll find this to be very important if you haven't had to deal with a solid chunk of salt (more like concrete!) yet after getting a little water on it! Long story short......buy a name brand synthetic sea salt and buy a RO/DI, SAVE THAT MONEY!!!
Also, let me know about that substrate test and get me a list of everything that's in your tank. Talk to you soon.
Later,
Myk.
 
thankgod4fish

thankgod4fish

Member
Myk, you're the best! I can't afford the RO/DI unit right now, so I'll probably get the tap water purifier and just buy the ro/di unit in the near future. I could always hold onto the tap water purifier for a rainy day (most likely for when I need new media for the ro/di unit and am to lazy to go buy it :) )
I think I'll just start over as well... saw the southdown everybody raves about over at the local home depot and it looks like nice substrate. Also, I think those hard, patchy deposits on the tank walls ar from the high hardness, so it'll be easier for me just to empty the tank up, scrub it really good (of course w/no chemicals) and refill it.
I'll keep you guys posted! Can't wait to start stocking but I want to make sure it's done right.
 
mykgillespie

mykgillespie

Member
That's the kind of good attitude that will bring you much success and enjoyment in this hobby! Doing it right from the get go is always best and patience is key. Make sure to seed that southdown well with sand bed critters to keep it clean and functioning, good quality LR should seed it good for you.
Later,
Myk.
By the way, I'm not sure why that last post went through twice? Maybe it was just really good or something?!:D
 
thankgod4fish

thankgod4fish

Member
It was really good! lol I see what you're referring to though, with the tap water purifier... it'll be much more expensive if I opt to use this on a permanent basis... but I should be able to just buy an ro/di unit soon anyway
 
mykgillespie

mykgillespie

Member
That sounds pretty good. In the meantime, if it fits the budget you should get 2 of the T.W.Purifiers so you can be sure to get the max use out of the resin cartridges without sacrificing water quality. Basically just run them together inline with the output from the one connected to the faucet to another T.W.P's bottom input. When the colour change starts in the second one in line, just swap them around and switch out the resin cartridge of the first one. Basically, T.W.P. #1 becomes T.W.P. #2 and back and forth and so on. It might not be a bad idea to have these on hand even with a RO/DI unit in case you need some water quick as I think these are supposed to do around 10 Gals per hour instead of per day! Depending on your RO/DI of course.
Later,
Myk.
 
thankgod4fish

thankgod4fish

Member
Actually, I just read an article about doing just that! I was thinkin, I"ll just sacrifice, and brown bag lunch for a few weeks so I can afford the ro/di unit... hell, I spend about 50 bucks/week on lunch!! Just took my pH again.. 8.2 - 8.3 for 4 days straight w/o supplementation... I think I just overdid the sea chem buffer... its got so much that I think can raise KH.... with 9dKH right off the tap, just so I can get started asap, I think I'll do 50% water change to bring down KH to something reasonable. Hopefully the pH stays where it is.. the buffer instructions indicated it could take a week (although it took mine a week n 2 days). In other words, all in all, I dont think my tap is that bad... Still wanna get separate tap filtration but just to get the ball rolling, I see if I can get the tank in decent shape w/the tap by this weekend so I can start cycling, and just skip right to the ro/di unit while the tank cycles....
what do you think??
Luis
 
mykgillespie

mykgillespie

Member
Sounds pretty good to me, still a little concerned as to why you had problems with a low pH in the past though. Still try that substrate test. I'm not familiar with the SeaChem buffer as far as experience is concerned. I remember using it about 5 or 6 years ago on a 35 Hex that I had. I forget the reason that I didn't like it exactly, but I think I remember it had something to do with a lack of consistency with the results I was getting. I remember that we used it in a store that I worked in for a little while on a large central system and had more success. Possible that this product is not as stable in smaller systems. Again not enough experience to give any good info. Try Kent... just a personal preferance.
Myk.
 
thankgod4fish

thankgod4fish

Member
Myk! I started fresh (no not FW, I mean started over again). Emptied tank, cleaned it up a bit w/some freshwater and put in 100lbs of southdown playsand... now. I filled the tank but didnt add the salt. I did this intentionally because I dont want to waste salt if I have to change water constantly b/c of high KH. Tested the KH, which was just the tap (conditioned with dechlorinator as per label instructions) and it was 18 dKH. I kid you not. Meanwhile, straight tap, from the sink that I took the water from tests at 9 - 10, which I think is ok..
Questions:
Will this go down when the sand settles? As you can guess, you can't even see through the water b/c of the sand. Call me stupid, but I think the sand has KH raising qualities itself.
Would the salt help with this? BTW, I switched to Instant Ocean.
If the salt doesnt help, would it be ok to do periodic water changes until the KH goes down, and then put in the salt? (remember, I have no life in the tank yet)
I read adding calcium to the tank along w/water changes helps this. Should I start this immediately?
Oh, BTW, the pH is bottom of the barrel low but I believe the salt should even that out... if not, I'll revert to the seachem buffer again, but I'll put in less than the recommended dosages daily - it may take longer, but at least I wont OD the tank again.
Oh, and just to clarify, the pH had been at a steady 8.1 - 8.3 for almost a week before I started over again... I can never make things easy for myself!!
Well thats all I can think of...
Thanks,
Struggling Aquarist a.k.a ThankGod4Fish
 
mykgillespie

mykgillespie

Member
Hi TG4F,
As you can see that stuff is very dusty! It will take some time to settle out. Not a bad idea to run a Mech. filter temporarily to help get rid of the dust. I would let the tank run for a little while with a small partial each day, maybe about a week, then re-test your KH and pH. Good idea not to add the salt yet as you will certainly have to change a reasonable amount of water to get rid of the dust and lower the KH. I wouldn't bother with adding the Ca until your KH is squared away and the salt is added. This has been a lot of work for you! Hang in there it will all pay off!:D
 
thankgod4fish

thankgod4fish

Member
Updates so far:
- Water is still as opaque as milk.
- Still nothing in the tank but dechlorinated tap and the southdown.
-pH is up from 7.6 to 7.8.
- KH down from 18 dKH to 12!! Overnight!! I guess letting the filter run for a while and the sand settle made the difference.
I can't wait!
Anyway, what kind of powerheads would you recommend? I believe I've seen some as low as $20 on sale at lfs. Also, how is it installed w/no UGF? Wont the fish get sucked up?
Also, I've seen inepxpensive protein skimmers, in the range of 40 to $80, with varying methods of cleaning. I've seen some with included powerheads and others with airstones... can someone explain the differences and advise? I don't think I could swing the 150 on a skimmer now, but I'd be willing to save for it if it's really going to make that much of a difference.
Also, I was thinking of getting another aquaclear, 300 maybe, and leaving the included media out. Instead I'd replace all the media with porous stone for bacteria growth.. I guess like a mini sump. Plus it'll help with aquarium circulation and there wont be media to clean... What do you think? I want to be sure there is ample "living space" for the good critters.
 
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