new reef tank??????????????

n05tr4d4mu5

n05tr4d4mu5

New Member
Hey folks,
 
Just new to the site, like ten mins ago. Currently have a 23 gallon freshwater tank. Want to change it and get a 75 gallon marine/reef tank.
 
I have been doing research ALL DAY on the internet, researching saltwatre tanks, FOWLR, and Reef. Can someone explain the difference between a reef and FOWLR? As far as i can tell it is only the coral and live rock that differ? but in what way?
 
Also, i know there is a LOT of equipment needed to start, protein skimmers, powerheads, pumps, sumps, lighting, coral etc etc etc.
Could someone give me pointers as to exactly what i would need and what size? for example what size pump would i need, how big a powerhead? what type of protein skimmer?
There are a lot of things to take in to account before i start this, hence the reason i need to make sure i am doing it correctly
I have a lot of questions, so please forgive my ignorance.
 
Also, are a sump and refugium the same thing?
 
Thanks in advance peeps.
 
wangotango

wangotango

Active Member
Welcome.
 
A reef contains a mixture of fish, coral, live rock, and invertebrates (a more complete biotope), whereas a FOWLR is a "fish-only-with-live-rock" (no corals, but maybe some crabs and snails for a cleanup crew). Basic equipment is the same, but a reef will require more intense lighting because of the corals.
 
There are so many different brands of stuff that it's hard to just give one. I recommend Octopus brand protein skimmers. They will give an approximate rating (which is usually inflated). It's best to go with a skimmer that's rated for more than your tank's volume rather than one for less or equal. There are several types too; venturi, downdraft, needle-wheel, beckett, recirculating. Venturi and needle-wheel are probably the most common. As far as pumps are concerned, you want one that will closely match whatever your tank is draining into your sump after head loss. The overflow on my tank is rated at 600gph, and my return pump (a Magdrive 7) is rated for 700gph. Magdrives are pretty good pumps for the money, but do add a bit of heat to the water. Eheim would be my next choice for internal pumps. Powerhead type is also a personal choice as there are so many out there. Depending on what type of system you go with (reef or FOWLR) will determine what type of flow you need. You want to provide enough flow for gas exchange, and to keep detritus and other particulate suspended in the water so it can be filtered out. 30-50x your system's volume turnover rate is a good place to start. Maxi-jet powerheads are pretty good and pretty cheap. There are also modification kits that you can buy to increase their output. Koralia powerheads are also pretty good and pretty cheap. Tunze and Vortech are more expensive but well worth it.
 
A sump is a separate tank (usually under) the display where your skimmer, heater, etc are kept. Most people setup their refugium in some part of the sump. The refugium itself houses more live rock, sand, and various macro algae. This all provides nutrient export via biological filtration, and allows a place for smaller "food" to grow. A refugium isn't necessary, but is very nice to have.
 
Hope that helps.
 
geoj

geoj

Active Member
For the type of light: I think first you have to decide what you are going to keep.
 
For the tank get a reef ready (drilled with either a overflow or baffle and bulkhead) tank and a sump.
 
If you go FOWLR then I would get a sump with a refugium. (A reef myth is Reefs are harder to keep wastes under control this is not true a FOWLR will normally have more fish and more waste then a reef.)
 
You size your sump pump to your display tanks overflow.
 
If you are going sump then a Super Reef Octopus XP1000 Space Saver Internal Cone Protein Skimmer
 
PH: I would go two powerheads with flow from 450 – 680 gph, this all depends on what your keeping.
 
n05tr4d4mu5

n05tr4d4mu5

New Member
i folks,
 
yeah, i was aware that the lighting for a reef tank had to be stronger than the FOWLR. thats ok.
 
I am definately going for a sump, as i am told this will make life easier for me??
 
Does the coral make life easier for me (and the fish) and is it easier to maintain, in keeping the bacteria, nitrates and nitrites etc to a minimum, to what they are expected to be?
 
And just to clarify, if my overflow pumps 500gph, i want a return pump (located in my sump) thats capable of 600gph, correct? or as long as the return is more than the overflow i will be ok?
And i want my skimmer to be able to do more than tanks volume, so that would be what, 75g, or is it measured like a pump, so it would be 600gph?
I want my powerheads to be able to do about 300gph, if my tank is 75gallon????
 
Again, sorry for the ignorance, but i need help here, and you folks are certainly giving me good pointers.
I knew NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about saltwater, marine tanks yesterday.
I feel i am slowly but surely getting there.
 
I am hoping to have it all up and running by christmas??? is this achievable?
 
Thanks.
 
 
geoj

geoj

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by N05TR4D4MU5 http:///forum/thread/380083/new-reef-tank#post_3307147
i folks,
 
yeah, i was aware that the lighting for a reef tank had to be stronger than the FOWLR. thats ok.
 
I am definately going for a sump, as i am told this will make life easier for me??
 
Does the coral make life easier for me (and the fish) and is it easier to maintain, in keeping the bacteria, nitrates and nitrites etc to a minimum, to what they are expected to be?
 
And just to clarify, if my overflow pumps 500gph, i want a return pump (located in my sump) thats capable of 600gph, correct? or as long as the return is more than the overflow i will be ok?
And i want my skimmer to be able to do more than tanks volume, so that would be what, 75g, or is it measured like a pump, so it would be 600gph?
I want my powerheads to be able to do about 300gph, if my tank is 75gallon????
 
Again, sorry for the ignorance, but i need help here, and you folks are certainly giving me good pointers.
I knew NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about saltwater, marine tanks yesterday.
I feel i am slowly but surely getting there.
 
I am hoping to have it all up and running by christmas??? is this achievable?
 
Thanks.
 
Many corals should be kept near to zero (1 - 0.9 ppm) nitrate. Some corals will use nitrate as part of there food source. Corals are harder to keep then most fish, yet to keep corals your fish choices are limited to those fish that are reef safe (will not eat or harm the corals). Photosynthesizing corals need little feeding and so don't add much to the waste. There is a tendency to have more live rock in a coral tank because you like to have a place to put the corals to look nice and give room to grow. Having corals gives you satisfaction and the need for many fish can be off-set by them. So in general if you are a good reef keeper you may not have any waste problems, this is not to say it is easy there is a lot to learn...
 
I recommend you set up the tank as a reef an stock with reef safe fish and learn how to keep them because, by the time you are good at keeping your fish alive you will probably want to try some easy corals.
 
The overflow drains the DT to the sump. The return pump is located in the sump and water is pumped out of the sump up to the DT. The DT then would overflow if not for a drain (the overflow). So you need to know how much flow that will be lost as the back
presser form pumping the water from the bottom of the sump up the top of the return.
This is the head loss you can fined a Head Loss Calculator online. The overflow has a flow rate so you will need to know what that is to buy a sump pump. So if you are going to do this you should find a good LFS to help you, because seeing it in person is better then looking at pic's online.
 
 
I started looking at my first tank with a sump just this July first, all my other reefs were the old standard tank with a HOB skimmer. Now I had a good idea as to what I wanted yet I have not completed the tank. It will be up and cycling by the 20th. Can you get a reef up and running by December yes but I think you should take longer to learn what you will need and want in a tank.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
I just want to double clarify the overflow GPH and the return GPH. The thing you want to remember is that you don't want more water being pumped into your tank than what your tank can drain out. So if you have an overflow that can drain at 500GPH then you can't have more than 500GPH being pumped into your tank otherwise you will overlow your display tank. The reason why a 600GPH pump will work is because it loses some of it's pressure by the time it reaches your tank. And however long and high your return line is determines how much water your return pump will actually pump back into your tank. So say you have a pump rated at 600GPH, but it has to travel 4-5FT strait up before it gets to your tank, and by the time it does then it's probably pushing more like 400GPh. So you have to know what your head pressure is going to be in order to be sure that you don't flood your tank if you go with a larger pump.
 
Having a drilled tank (reef ready) is much more reliable than purchasing a hang on the back overflow. It's just something to think about.
 
geoj

geoj

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/380083/new-reef-tank#post_3307501
I just want to double clarify the overflow GPH and the return GPH. The thing you want to remember is that you don't want more water being pumped into your tank than what your tank can drain out. So if you have an overflow that can drain at 500GPH then you can't have more than 500GPH being pumped into your tank otherwise you will overlow your display tank. The reason why a 600GPH pump will work is because it loses some of it's pressure by the time it reaches your tank. And however long and high your return line is determines how much water your return pump will actually pump back into your tank. So say you have a pump rated at 600GPH, but it has to travel 4-5FT strait up before it gets to your tank, and by the time it does then it's probably pushing more like 400GPh. So you have to know what your head pressure is going to be in order to be sure that you don't flood your tank if you go with a larger pump.
 
Having a drilled tank (reef ready) is much more reliable than purchasing a hang on the back overflow. It's just something to think about.
I did try, yet I could not have said it better
 
n05tr4d4mu5

n05tr4d4mu5

New Member
went to the LFS store today, they were very helpful, i think?????
 
The tank i saw there was 100 gallons. (4x2x2 ft)
 
Managed to get a price, tell me what you think, and what else i have missed:
 
Tank
sump
skimmer
salt
hydrometer
pump
sand
test kit
vortec powerhead
korilea powerhead
light unit
rock
heater
thermometer
live rock
phosphate remover
 
total cost £1500 sterling, approx $3000
 
and then i will need to get water, obviously.
 
did i get a deal or not?
 
dont ask me makes of the stuff, i forget.lol
 
Slowly but surely getting there........................
 
will kep researching, and in the meantime, anymore info you can give me will be greatly received.
 
Cheers
 
n05tr4d4mu5

n05tr4d4mu5

New Member
The tank has a built in overflow. I have not purchased it yet. Want to do a bit more research before i do.
 
I have emailed the shop asking for specific makes and models of equipment, so i can compare on the net.
Still do not know the overflow rate gph of the tank, waiting on a reply as i say.
 
as far as i can decipher, she priced me for a
 
100 gallon tank (uk) 4x2x2 ft
Bubble Magnus NAC6 Skimmer
korilea p/w No 2 powerhead
vortec MP40w Gen 2 powerhead
2000 pump (dont know the make)
23 gallon sump
and all the rest i listed above in previous post!!!!
 
Is this equipment ok?
 
Does anyone know where i could price all the stuff i need online?
and i mean ALL the stuff?
 
How much should i expect to pay for the skimmer? can anyone recommend a good one, but not too expensive, that will do a good job?
 
She never actually broke each item down for me, well she did, but didnt give me a copy of it.
i want to see if i can obtain everything i need for less than £1500, as my wife has the purse strings.lol
we all know what thats like gents? you have more chance of getting poop out of a rocking horse, than getting £1500 from the wife. ha ha
so if i want a saltawater tank, i need to bring the price down, without cutting corners on equipment.
 
 
So good online shops please peeps..........................
 
cheers
 
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