new tank setup

[cathyk]

I've been reading up for a while now and finally want to 'get my feet wet'. We're going with a 125g FOWLR tank. My LFS says to go with at least 80 lbs live rock with a canister filter and UV sterilizer. They don't think a skimmer will be necessary. Any opinions on this? For fish, we're thinking of a pair of clowns, french angel, flame angel, lemonpeel angel, naso tang, hippo tang, and a flame hawk. Is the tank big enough for the two dwarf angels? Any sirens from the tang police? Any recommendation on order of introducing them? Your help is greatly appreciated because we'd like to get this right. Thanks!

 

[cathyk]

ooops, I actually thought I was posting in the new hobbyist forum but somehow I put it in the Fish discussion. I still would appreciate the input, though.

 

[karajay]

IMO, skip the naso tang (adults are too large) and decide on one type of dwarf angel.
Tangs and angels should only be added to a mature system. I would start with the clowns first.
I would say, get more LR if you can afford it. The type of fish you are planning will need ample amounts of LR. I would suggest closer to 150 lbs. or so.
With regards to your equipment, I'm no expert. But I would say, skip the UV and definately get a skimmer.
Also, what brand of canister is your LFS recommending? I didn't know they made one that could handle a tank that size. You made need two.
Better still go with a wet/dry.
And...
WELCOME to swf.com

 

[cathyk]

Thanks for the advice. I'll be going to the LFS in a couple of days so will get specifics on the canister and UV to post. By 'mature' you mean stable parameters for how long? 3months, 6months,etc? Also can I add the french angel sooner? I've heard you can even use those to cycle a tank- not that I would drop that kind of money on a cocktail shrimp replacement. Also, should I add snails, hermits, shrimp before fish or after fish? I want them to have enough to eat but don't want my fish to see them as new food.

 

[karajay]

A clean-up crew is genarally added after the cycle is complete, but before the first fish. Usually, a freshly cycled tank will contain plenty for them to munch on. Or you can feed them fish food if you like.
When I said a mature tank, I meant at least 4-6 mo. I would wait at least that long for any tang or angel.
I would also strongly advise you to consider setting up a quarantine tank for your new fish arrivals. Many fish are exposed to parasites or diseases that can wreak havoc in your tank. However, if you properly quarantine them for at least 30 days, you can avoid this.
I would suggest you take a look in the disease forum if you haven't already. There are a few stickies posted at the top that provide excellent information about quarantine tanks and hyposalinity. You will also notice the number of people who are now battling ich and whatever else, from failing to quarantine.
:happyfish

 

[cnlight]

I agree with Karajay here. Skip the uv sterilizer, they aren't really needed, but I would highly recommend a skimmer, especially since you want some big fish. Unfortunatly you can't combine small angels with other small angels. I have seen Naso tangs in a public aquarium, and it was huge and swam very fast, I think it would be cruel to subject it to a smaller space than it needs.
The hippo tang should be fine, and then you could also add a something smaller like a kole tang or a yellow tang. I have heard people mixing angels in a large tank, but I just wouldn't chance it, they are very territorial.
With the flame hawkfish, you can't mix it with shrimp, it will eat them. Also french angels are a very big fish, fine in your tank, but they are aggressive.
Your tank should be good, but I wouldn't always listen to your lfs, they might be telling you something to just sell you something expensive. I have learned to take everything from the fish store with a grain of salt. Many of the people here have much experience here, ask lots of questions, its good to know more.

 

[ross]

I agree with everything said. You should definetly get as much lr as you can afford, and a skimmer. I would only add 1 of the angels because 2 would fight. "Established" usually means about 6 months. You could get 1 angel, the regal tang, a pair of clowns, flame hawk, and several smaller fish. Maybe a yellow tang, some kind of wrasse, and a couple gobies. You have alot of options in that size tank.

 

[midwest reefer]

definatly go with a wet/dry, but with the fish you are wanting, id get a UV too. wet/dry with skimmer is most important though, you can add the UV later(---- always has cheap, but good UV's) with the amount of fish you have you will produce alot of waste, which the skimmer will remove. the wet/dry will provide mechanical and biological filtration as well as the LR.

 

[cathyk]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to the LFS today so I'll get some more equipment specifics to post. I do plan on adding as much live rock as possible because we love the look and are sold on the benefits. If I put 100plus labs in, is a wet/dry redundant? Also, one of the reasons we decided on a lemonpeel was for that bright color. We initially were going to go with a yellow tang but got a little scared away after reading a lot of aggressive as well as disease [ich, LLD] posts on this forum. Also, will a yellow get along with a hippo? I really love the flame hawk too but want a blood red fire shrimp more. If the shrimp gets big enough, will the flame still be able to take him down? One more question- if I get tank-raised clowns, can I add a tank-raised maroon clown also? We initially ruled this out but I've heard that some tank-raised specimens can be mixed. Of course this came from the retailer so I'm a little skeptical. Thanks! Hope everyone had a great holiday!

 

[cathyk]

One of these days I'll learn to preview my post before submitting. I'm not exactly sure how much a lab of live rock weighs but it sure sounds big. The word I was trying to go for was lbs. Must have dragged a pinkie or something. Ooops.

 

[karajay]

Originally posted by cathyk
One more question- if I get tank-raised clowns, can I add a tank-raised maroon clown also?
You should not mix clown species. Maroons are one the most aggressive clowns and will not tolerate others.

 

[ross]

IMO a yellow tang is hardier that a lemonpeel. The reason you hear so many bad things is because alot of people have them. Yes a blue and a yellow would do good together in that size tank.

 

[cathyk]

How should I add them? Or is that really an issue with regards to order? I've never really heard of a hippo being very aggressive but will the yellow have any issues if the hippo comes in later?

 

[ross]

I haven't had personal experience with either of these fish, but i don't think either would be very aggresive. I have never seen a hippo tang chase any other kind of fish. I would just buy both of them at the same time. (get small ones) I bet they will get along fine.

 

[jadenx]

It's nice to see someone else in here from phoenix.
I'm wondering what LFS you're talking about.. If it's Aquatouch, they also tried to tell me to skip a skimmer, and add a UV with a FOWLR. Their livestock is very well care for as far as I can see. They use a variety of food with Selcon and garlic for their tanks and always quarentine for at least 2 weeks.
If you are going to Ocean Floor, be careful of the advice you get. I would not buy any live rock from them, either. They keep uncured, precured, and cured all in the same tanks, and few of the pieces are not even totally submerged. The livestock they have there looks horrible, there seems to be more fish at the bottom of their tanks than swimming.
Aquatouch has very nice looking live rock, and it it all fully cured. I don't know if they will have that much on hand, though.
Let me know where you are going, and what experience you have.

 

[ebsochin]

Just to throw a couple of thoughts out there, I think others have touched on it, As far as a French Angel, know that they are an agressive angel. I have one that is changing right now to an adult (about 6-7 inches) and he is an awesome fish but very agressive to the tank mates. They do get along well with tangs as I also have a Red Sea Sailfin (5 inches) and a Adult Naso Tang with streamers (11 inches). Some of the other inhabitants I have in the 180gal are bicolor blenny, watchman goby, and two green chromis. I will say this as far as the Naso Tang, you could get a smaller one, but I'm not sure how long you would be able to keep it as they do grow large and need lots of swimming room. My 180 is almost to small for the one I have. Another thought on the LR, you have the right idea as far as adding more, just know that Angels love lots of rocks. Not only do they graze on them, but they love to swim and hide in them. I have about 250lbs in my 180 and the French loves it.
As far as the clowns, stick with one kind. I wouldn't take the chance of mixing two kinds and having to rescue one. Good luck with everything and you are definetly on the right track.

 

[saltfin]

I have a Maroon cln, 2-Yellow tangs, 1-Regal Hippo tang and a coral bandit shrimp. When I introduced the hippo into my tank it broke out with a parasite so off to the hospital for 30d. When put back into Main system the yellows and hippo get along wonderful and have no problems with eachother. They seem to care less. They all love Romaine too. Tangs are worse than a cow. Talk about grazzing. The Hippo likes to stop by the bandit for a cleaning but the bandit can't figure out why. He needs lessons from a cleaner shrimp. Hope that answers that question.

 

[cathyk]

Thanks for all the input. JadenX, good to hear from a fellow desert dweller. We have liked AquaTouch- their fish look well cared for and their people are always willing to talk and seem knowlegeable. They are the store that recommended the sterilizer over the skimmer. I have also been talking with Kingsley- the owner of Aquarium Arts in Mesa. He has spent a lot of time with us on setup and we have decided to go with a Remora skimmer as well as a 40W sterilizer. We are initially going to start with 100 lbs of live rock. We would like as much as possible but I just have to see how much rock that is in the aquarium before adding more. It's too bad that the skin diver/treasure chest bubbler doesn't provide bio filtration! LOL, so don't get worried! Final fish selection still hasn't been nailed down so I appreciate all the help from the board. Maybe I'll just throw them all in at once and let them fight it out!

Any opinions on the setup or more fish recommendations would be great! Oh BTW, avoid Ocean Arts [can't these people be more creative?] in Ahwatukee. The owner truly is a danger to the trade and giving people horrible advice! He actually had to 'look up' French Angel and told us it was a rare fish and had to be special ordered! Thanks,all! oh, one more thing- some earlier posts talked about problems with cleaner crews from this website- has that improved?

 

[lesleybird]

Hi, I have a flame angel and a lemonpeel angel in my ninety gallon that get along fine. They kind of sparred a little for the first few days, but now ignore each other. I would put the two into the tank at the same time so as they don't get too territorial of a new pygme comming into what they think of as their tank. Lesley