New to saltwater - help needed!

[jaymes785]

Hey - I'm new here, so I hope this is an appropriate place to post this thread. I've been keeping freshwater aquariums for quite some time, and I've planned to start a saltwater for about a year now. Last year I took a marine bio course (still in high school), and I've been doing research on starting a salt tank ever since. Here's my current list of things I think I'll need to start. Is there anything I'm missing?
20 gallon H tank & stand, Sundial T5HO or Nova Extreme T5HO (I want the sundial, but money is an issue), skimmer or filter (not both, to start with), heater, timer, hydrometer and thermometer, test kit and salt mix. Plus live rock and aragonite sand.
Here's a couple questions:
1) I was thinking that I would start with a hob or canister filter and save up for a skimmer, but when I look at skimmer prices, they're lower than I thought. Should I just forget the filter all together, and use just a skimmer and LR for filtration? I don't want to do a sump right now.
2) What's a good skimmer for that size tank? Many people have told me that they're aren't any good skimmers for tanks this small. Are any hob skimmers worth the money?
3) How many pounds of aragonite should I buy?
As for livestock I'm going to start with fish and inverts only. I was thinking one pair of clowns (percs or ocellaris?) and possible one or two other small fish. I'd like to throw in some hermits, snails, and a pom-pom crab also, but I'm not sure about which inverts yet. I'm still reading up on that.
After I've got this all up and running well I'd like to add some easy corals. Maybe an anemone eventually. Could I keep an anemone under T5 if it sat high in the tank? What do you guys recommend for that lighting? Both fixtures are 4x24 watt, but the sundial has individual reflectors while the nova extreme does not. Could I keep an anemone under T5 if it sat high in the tank?
Thanks

 

[wfd1008]

welcome. i find that saltwater is a love/hate relationship. when things are going good, i love it; when things are not so good, and i need to donate a kidney for some of the things, well, that's when the hate part comes in. patience is a must in this. patience on setting up the tank, patience on cycling your tank, and patience on adding live stock. so expect to dish out some cash, and expect things to go south.

it seems like you know what you need to get it ready, the only advice i have is i would do both the filter and skimmer. a good skimmer is worth it's wieght in gold. as far as a good one on a 20-gal, well idk

. as for the live stock, for a 20-gal, four fish might be a bit much IMO. the way i see it is i'd rather have two healthy fish that i can enjoy for a long time, than have four that look cool for short while before they start to die. don't get me wrong, i'm sure someone on here will tell you that you can keep four in a 20-gal, and i'm sure there are even more that do it, but being new, i would wait until you see how things are going before you try. as far a a clean up crew (crabs and snails) always a good investment. the anemone i would wait on cause they can be tough to keep.
before you add anything to your tank, make sure it's cycled, or what ever you put in alive most likely will be coming out dead. hear what your local fish store says, but DO NOT always believe them!!! now if it was me, i would wait and save up a bit more cash to start off with a larger tank. i know that size and space is always an issue, but if yo can do it, i would try for one a little bit bigger. a smaller tank is a bit more demanding on time and attention IMO, but they are nice. if you are heart set on a smaller tank, check out some of the nano set ups out there, you could save some money that way and still get a nice tank.
that's all i got, so i hope this helped out in some way. i'm sure that there will be someone telling you other wise, but keep doing research, and good luck.
one last note--no matter what your LFS tells you, you cannot keep a yellow tang in a 20-gal tank

 

[markeo99]

I would spend your money on a good quality skimmer in a marine aquarium if you have enough rock sand and flow that is your filter especially if you have a good skimmer that removes the poo

 

[jaymes785]

Originally Posted by wfd1008
http:///forum/post/2731929
patience is a must in this. patience on setting up the tank, patience on cycling your tank, and patience on adding live stock. so expect to dish out some cash, and expect things to go south.
Patience is not always what I'm known for, but for this project I'm going to take everything pretty slow. My parents are giving me $500 to get things started, and everything else I'll have to pay for myself. So far I have about $250 that I could add to the $500. I'm just going to buy things as I get the money and set it up slowly. Hopefully this will also keep me from buying any wrong equiptment and having to spend more in the long run.
I'm not going to rush the cycle, as I really don't want to lose any critters because I added them too quickly. Plus, most of my money will probably be spent on the tank, hardware, and live rock/sand. I'll have to save more before I can add any livestock. When I do add livestock, I'm only going to keep a clean up crew and a pair of clowns for a couple months, to make sure everything is going well. When I feel that it's working out I'll start to add other critters and maybe another fish. I'm in no rush to add corals, and an anemone is definatly not at the top of the list. I want to have the proper equiptment to keep these things so I don't have to upgrade, but I'm not going to start off with them for sure. I just want to have the right stuff in case I decide to keep corals and/or anemones in the future.
I was actually considering something much larger when I first started looking for a salt tank - I was looking for something in the 55-75 gallon range. I even looked at a couple 90 gallon setups. However, I think that 20 gallons is much more practical in my case. I know that it's generally advised that beginners start with something larger, but I'm definatly not rushing into this. I'm doing tons of research before starting anything, and I'm really hoping that I can get it going successfully. But as you mentioned (and I've learned with freshwater), I planning on the worse, and hoping for the best.

 

[jaymes785]

Originally Posted by wfd1008
http:///forum/post/2731929
one last note--no matter what your LFS tells you, you cannot keep a yellow tang in a 20-gal tank

Seriously?! I've been saving up for a yellow tang... Could I keep a blue hippo tang? Or maybe a Emporer Angelfish?

 

[meeks101]

I like occelaris, it's a great beginner clown, I myself have two. They are the easiest clowns to breed and raise!

 

[dogfaceman]

I would go with the 29 gallon biocube, you can pick them up for $270, and it has a nice look and all the filtration is in the back, then you could get a good skimmer. also make sure you get a refracto meter and if your making your own salt IMO use reef crystals.

 

[dogfaceman]

also get a powerhead or 2

 

[markeo99]

after I found this boards and the classified section I will never buy new again I spent more setting up my 55 new and the wrong way courtesy of my lfs than my 125 the right way here

 

[jaymes785]

Ya, I've been checking the classifieds on this site daily, and craigslist also. I've come pretty close to a couple setups, but so far I've got nothing.
How about the AquaC Remora skimmer? Any comments? Overkill on a tank this size, or is there something better than the remora?
I really like the bio cubes, but I definatly cannot buy one new. Being the perfectionist that I often am, I'd have to get all the upgrades and mods. In the end it would cost me way more than $270. lol If I find one used, I'd be interested. Starting from scratch and building the 20 gallon the way I want it might be fun anyways. If I can stay in budget.
So here's my new shopping list: 20H tank with stand & glass tops, AquaC Remora skimmer w/ prefilter, SunDial T5HO, powerhead (what kind??), 100 watt heater, thermometer & hydrometer, test kit and salt mix. Oh, and the all important LR. Please tell me that's everything I need, becuase I don't think the wallet could handle anything more.

 

[wfd1008]

you know, if you're going to have about $770 (the 270 you have, plus if your parents give you 500), that's a good chunk of change to start a tank IMO. from what i understand about the nano setups, there's really not that many upgrades. You can pick the types of lights you want before you buy and buy a skimmer to put in it, but other than that, I don't think there's too many other choices. I'm not trying to sway your choice, but one thing to think about is the price of each item you're going to buy for the tank (i.e. - tank, lights, hood, stand, and what not) compared to a unit that comes with most of that. I really can't answer your questions about the skimmers cause all I have are two sea-clones (which everybody on here hates) and a red-sea. I was going to upgrade and the feed back i got was the octopus skimmers are a good way to go. That's all i got.

 

[subielover]

You will also want to ditch the hyrdometer and get a refractometer from the start. Much more accurate and reliable.

 

[atrialfib22]

Welcome to the boards and to saltwater!
My 20g H nano reef has been setup for the past 6-7 months...the AquaC Remora has worked out great for me so far.
Sounds to me like you have a great plan to start with, and your patience will pay off.
For PHs I would suggest the Hydor Koralias...they are reliable, random flow and disperse their output nicely.
+1 on the refractometer over the hydrometer...if you can, get 2-50W heaters instead of the 1-100W...it'll disperse the heat more evenly and give you a temporary backup in case one breaks or malfunctions (I would do that if I had to do it all over again).
Also, what kind of substrate are you gonna use?
Oh yea and make sure that your test kit is the liquid kind...no test strips or anything like that. They are much more accurate.

 

[dogfaceman]

Originally Posted by Jaymes785
http:///forum/post/2732846
Ya, I've been checking the classifieds on this site daily, and craigslist also. I've come pretty close to a couple setups, but so far I've got nothing.
How about the AquaC Remora skimmer? Any comments? Overkill on a tank this size, or is there something better than the remora?
I really like the bio cubes, but I definatly cannot buy one new. Being the perfectionist that I often am, I'd have to get all the upgrades and mods. In the end it would cost me way more than $270. lol If I find one used, I'd be interested. Starting from scratch and building the 20 gallon the way I want it might be fun anyways. If I can stay in budget.
So here's my new shopping list: 20H tank with stand & glass tops, AquaC Remora skimmer w/ prefilter, SunDial T5HO, powerhead (what kind??), 100 watt heater, thermometer & hydrometer, test kit and salt mix. Oh, and the all important LR. Please tell me that's everything I need, becuase I don't think the wallet could handle anything more.
IMO you dont save too much on buying everything seperate, the biocube is very nice and looks great unlike a tank you made youself

 

[jaymes785]

Originally Posted by AtrialFib22
http:///forum/post/2733393
Also, what kind of substrate are you gonna use?
Oh yea and make sure that your test kit is the liquid kind...no test strips or anything like that. They are much more accurate.
I was going to use aragonite. Any opinions on that? How about the API master kit?

 

[ci11337]

So here's my new shopping list: 20H tank with stand & glass tops, AquaC Remora skimmer w/ prefilter, SunDial T5HO, powerhead (what kind??), 100 watt heater, thermometer & hydrometer, test kit and salt mix. Oh, and the all important LR. Please tell me that's everything I need, becuase I don't think the wallet could handle anything more.
i started my reef when i was 13 and i had half the $$ u got. (tank was for b day though)
your list looks good, go with a thin bed of fine sand,(less than 1in) way easier to keep clean. I'd suggest a whisper filter, just run the "biobag cartridge" which is a filter bag with carbon inside. If your going to have that much light you will really need an RO unit. (i know this from experience

, i wish someone had told me this before i started) If i were you,(or me 3 years ago) i would go FOWLR. just get one of those nova fixtures with 2 T5 bulbs, with less light there will be less algae. With this you can still keep mushroom corals. (i have kept them under normal lighting) to add interest.
Whatever you do, just take your time and make sure you do it right the first time or you'll end up like me.

 

[kandiman1224]

I'm thinking about starting a saltwater tank and need advice.......
i would like to know the basic equipment i will need.
i know that clown fish live in temps of 75-80 farehnheit
and some guy said i would need a chiller 600$ dollar lol no way
because the tank i have is one im using for breeding my cichlids plus the temp of my water is always below 80 degrees so i dont need a chiller
my tank is 30 gallons a hexagon and im not planning on going all out on it until i can have a basic clown fish in it for a while
im going to buy equipment little by little
can anyone give me a guestimate of what i will need i will try to give pics.......anyone wanna see my cichlid....lol off topic

 

[crazy4reefs]

It sounds like you have really done your home work on this and you know what you want which is great! I know a biocube is pretty and all in one package but there is nothing wrong with wanting to creat your own tank.
The biocubes may be good for new people who dont want to deal with starting a tank from scratch or just personal preference. I feel if you start from scratch it leaves open a lot of possibilities down the road for growth and change. someday you may want to add a fuge or sump or both and you can always change your equipment around if you ever want to upgrade something. the way I look at it is its your tank so you should should go the route that you want to go.
as far as powerheads I would suggest to go with Koralias like AtrialFib22 said and one thing I would highly suggest is instead of a hydrometer to go with the refractometer. you can get a good one for about $40 and they are well worth the money because they are MUCH more accurate! I started with a hydrometer and I found it to be pretty much usless.
Like I said it sounds to me like you have really done your homework so if you already have your mind set on what type of tank to start with I say go for it. then while your tank is cycling you can work on getting your other equipment.
you dont need your lights or skimmer while your tank is cycling. I dont believe you have to add a skimmer until your tank has been up a running for a few months.
Just one more thing, I would go with the T5 lights that have the individual reflectors, from what I understand they are more powerful than the ones without the individual reflectors and from what I have read you can keep just about anything with them. I know its more money but its better than wishing you had bought them down the line.
sorry this is so long but I hope I have helped some, keep us updated and dont be afraid to keep asking questions. good luck!

 

[teresaq]

ditch the glass tops. most people don't use them, they hold in too much heat and you don't get good oxygen exchange if you use them.

 

[teresaq]

Originally Posted by kandiman1224
http:///forum/post/2736346

I'm thinking about starting a saltwater tank and need advice.......
i would like to know the basic equipment i will need.
i know that clown fish live in temps of 75-80 farehnheit
and some guy said i would need a chiller 600$ dollar lol no way
because the tank i have is one im using for breeding my cichlids plus the temp of my water is always below 80 degrees so i dont need a chiller
my tank is 30 gallons a hexagon and im not planning on going all out on it until i can have a basic clown fish in it for a while
im going to buy equipment little by little
can anyone give me a guestimate of what i will need i will try to give pics.......anyone wanna see my cichlid....lol off topic
you should start your own thread so people can help you too

T