Newbie - Dead fish - PLEASE HELP

[j-bird]

Hello everyone, now first off, this is the first SW tank I have had, always had fresh water, up until last night I have been very fortunate (maybe lucky), but I had a fish die last night and I can not figure out why??? :help: I have a 55g tank and it has been up and running for 8 weeks. It had completely cycled and my water parameters have been great for last 4 weeks. (PH=8.2, Amn=0, trite=o, trate=15, salinity=1.021) I have approx 30lbs LR (I know I need more and I have 25lbs being shipped that I should receive today).
Now back to my problem, I had a yellow tail damsel die on me yesterday for no apparent reason. I only had him and a fox face in there, along with small cleanup crew, he did not have ick and all other fish seem to be doing fine, although the fox face seems to be hiding a little more than often and seems to have the brown color in him more often than yellow, but he seems to be eating and swimming fine. What scares me is that the damsel was hiding more often the night before he died

. I am scared my fox face might be dead when I get home from work today. I did a partial water change last night (10g), this is what the LFS told me to do.
Please help and tell me anything else that might be wrong, should I be testing for anything else in my tank?? Could it be a fluke?? It almost seems as if he had a heart attack, one second he is sitting there and then he sinks to bottom on his back.
PLEASE HELP!

 

[merredeth]

Personally, I believe you may have an issue with salinity. How are you testing your salinity? Are you using a hydrometer or a refractometer? If you are using a swing arm hydrometer (something like Deep Six) then you may have inaccurate readings on the salinity. Get a refractometer and until you purchase one, make sure you are flicking the hydrometer to make sure that the air bubbles are off the swing arm as that can affect your readings. I'd also think about doing the readings three times each time you test it for purposes of accuracy. However, keep in mind that refractometers are far more accurate than any swing arm hydrometer.
Damsels are not easily affected by changes in water conditions so his death would be a red flag to anyone I know. Is it possible that that the Damsel was hit by the Foxface and possibly poisoned. Damsels are very territorial and like to chase fish. It is completely possible that he was stung. Did you cycle the tank before introducing the damsel? If you used the damsel to cycle the tank, he could have been dealing with respiratory stress which could have caused his death.
You will probably notice that your Foxface will change hues of color. This is normal. Is he breathing okay? Is he actively swiming at any time or more often than not hiding? I'm more concerned that this tank is too newly set up to house a Foxface and that will be the ultimate reason he may die.
What is the temperature of your tank? That isn't listed.
Denise M.

 

[loodachris]

J, Just from what you told me, I couldnt see any problems. I would love to help you out because that is frustrating, but unfortunately i cant really think of any reasonable causes

.... When did you put him in there??

 

[loodachris]

Oh yea....Duh good call Merr, could have been poisoned

 

[j-bird]

Alright, yes, I did use the damsel to cycle tank. He has been in there for about six weeks (two weeks after I started cycle). Also, I am using hydrometer with arm (Deep six) to test salinity. I always tap to make sure air bubbles are out, but I will look into new test that you mentioned.
BIG UPDATE...I have just tested my water again and Amn has risen to approx. 0.1. I have one of the test kits that you add your own chemicals to and match up color. It is somewhere inbetween 0 and .25, I would say closer to 0, but not completely, is this enough to kill fish. I would have figured fow face would have died before damsel, especially considering what he has been through already.
It is very possible that he got stung by fox face. At first damsel would go after him quite often, but fox face started to go back at him and this seemed to calm damsel down, but it is still very possible.
Should I change some water again to lower Amn., I think so???
I have two perculas coming any day that I ordered off of this site and I am now very hesitant to put them in tank considering what is now going on.

 

[j-bird]

Amn. was at 0 two days ago (has been for last 3 weeks). What can cause this rise?? possible over feeding? I feed twice a day, once in morning and once at night.

 

[j-bird]

Oh yeah, Temp. is 76.5.

 

[misfit]

HI, IMO _I wouldnt put those percs in your tank they need a QT tankYour SG sounds either off or low,it should be 1.025r around there. I think your temp is alittle low too. You might be seeing a little ammonia spike from the dead fish. How long was he in the tank?I would do a water change, no amount of ammonia is good! I agree I dont think tank may be ready for Foxface thats just my 2 cents.

 

[misfit]

Lower temps can also affect SG levels. I do believe that they are calibrated to saw THe SG level in water 78 and up. You did prime it as per directions when you bought right?

 

[fishmamma]

Meredith had some good thoughts and advice. I also think you need to raise your salinity a bit, especially since swing arms are notoriously innacurtae...it may be lower than you think. Good luck with all else, do frequent small water changes and continue to monitor the ammonia levels, hopefully that was the last of your troubles.

 

[j-bird]

Misfit....what do you mean by priming?? I do not believe I did this.
How does a refractometer measure salinity, I have to look into this??
I will do another water change this afternoon and raise the salinity a little.
The dead fish was not in my tank long at all. The lights were off and he was sitting in his favorite hiding spot looking alright, then I turned the lights on and he started to freak out and then just sunk to the bottom on his side(twitching every once in a while). He was only in tank for about 5 minutes after this. When I took hom out, he was still not completely dead.
the problem with the percs is that I have already ordered them and I can not cancel. And I do not have a QT tank setup. I just got a small 10g nano tank for this purpose, but unfortunetly it is not setup yet. How long would I be able to keep these fish in a bucket for? this might be stupid question??? I might have to find somebody to take them??
The damn guy at the LFS said to keep my salinity at 1.019-1.023, and he also said that the foxface would be fine in there with my water parameters, even though I told him that tank has only been running for 6 weeks at the time, but it did only take my tank about two weeks to completely cycle.

 

[j-bird]

I was also told to keep temp between 76-78. It should be higher than this?? I thought you were not supposed to have it over 80???

 

[misfit]

Temp should be about 78 or 79. Priming is filling with warm freshwater and letting it sit 24 hrs. I dont think most people do this, no one reads directions dont feel bad!! I think that is one of the reasons why people dont have acc readings with them!

 

[misfit]

need to set up that QT tank <SG should always be higher than LFS. Which by the way sounds like he is only in it for the money, find a new one.

 

[j-bird]

Thanks a lot for all your help and info!!

 

[fishmamma]

If the foxface is looking healthy when the new fish arrive you can put them in the main display but you are risking a disaster should the clowns be sick. If at all possible have your QT up and running, that size will be fine for the clowns for quite a while. What are you running for filtration on the main tank? If at all possible throw some live rock and filter media from your tank into the QT to help establish a bacteria colony. There are also products out there can help with the nitrate cycle when it occurs such as Amquel, Prime and running a Polyfilter. If a small cycle occurs the clowns should handle it providing they start with zero levels and they rise slowly. The above mentioned products will help decrease the toxicity of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate but will not alter the measurable amount in the water.

 

[ophiura]

I haven't read this whole thread but if you have 25 lbs of LR being shipped and you add that to your tank odds are you will recycle this tank!! I would either cure it separately or get all the fish out. I do not believe your salinity, or the foxface, resulted in the death of the damselfish.

 

[fishmamma]

Is the newly arriving live rock pre-cured and shipped overnight?
You will have some die-off and possible enough to casue another cycle like Ophuira said. You can cure it in a rubbermaid bin or large rubber trash can with a heater and some circulation via a powerhead. Scrubbing the surface of the ruck with a stiff brush and reving any sponge decaying material with a knife or screw driver will help decrease the curing time.

 

[j-bird]

I have just received the live rock 2-day express from this website, they say it is already cured.
I think I have come to the conclusion that the damsel got stuck by the foxface, I do not see any other explanation. The damsel has been in my tank since it cycled the first time and has seen much worse than this. The fox face, starfish, and cleanup crew all seem to be fine, and my parameters are back to normal. I think small rise in Amn. was due to dead fish.
The damsek would quite often go for foxface, has come close to fin before, must have got too close this time.
Does anybody have experience with LR from this site, I am hoping that I will be able to add right to my tank. The percs are not coming until next week now, so I think all should be alright.
This might sound really weird, but by the way he was acting when he was dying, it looked as if he was poisened. :notsure:
Once again, Thanks for everybody's help, this site is great!

 

[pallan]

i would not add the live rock until it has been recured. you run the risk of all the die off which there probably was polutting your tank and causing problems. search for a curing process from this site and follow that. Good luck