Newbie Looking For Pointers

[druluv]

This is my first big tank and I'm a little nervous. I would Like to house sps and clams, as well as, fish. Just looking for good sound advice on this precarious hobby.
No Coral
Fish
Yellow Tang
Tank is two months old (still in cycling period):
Tank Spec.
180 Gal 72 * 18 * 30
fuge 30 * 14 * 18
with live sand bed :Macro algae, pods, worms, hermits, sand bed clams, and various snails for detrius & algae removal.
about 100 lbs pounds of marshal, Tonga, and fugi
Iknow this is small but I wanted more area for detrius removal and coral landscape.
filtration:
fuge with a mag 2400 with dual returns
no skimmer
water movement
via aqua 1000 gph power head
lighting:
4 vho 160wat 72" 2 blue actinic and 2 10,000
about to add 4 (400 watt MH 2 10K & 2 20k)
water top off
pm neilsen reator
What do you think.
Pls be as critical as you can!

 

[druluv]

Here goes:

 

[druluv]

Fuge mud filter

 

[nicky1.8t]

imo before you get involved with clams and sps i would try out some softies and lps. but deffently do the reasearch on lps i havent got involved with them yet because i dont have the time to keep up with them.

 

[gdamador]

IMO, you will definitely want to add a skimmer to help keep the extra waste and eventually nitrates down. Also, why has it been cycling for so long? Two months? Sounds a bit too long to me. Anyhow, your lighting seems to be good but if you are hoping to keep sps corals you will need to have more light. My calculation is that you have or will have a total of 1040w of power (if I'm wrong and you actually have more, sorry, I could only figure out that calculation from your description) which gives you 5.8w per gallon. For sps corals you should have 8-10 or better watts per gallon. Anyhow, it is pricey that's why my 180 is only for aggressives and my 80 for reef. Hope all goes well and please post pics as you move along in the process!

 

[fishman830]

actually that's a 168 gal tank

 

[druluv]

IMO, you will definitely want to add a skimmer to help keep the extra waste and eventually nitrates down
I believe that protein skimming might not be beneficial to the system. Skimming removes too many important things from the water column. I going for a more natural approach.

 

[druluv]

there is nothing more natural than skimming ... take a trip to the beach!
Pls elaborate some more on this.

 

[beerformep]

The white foam you see at the beach is natures way of skimming,also once you hook a skimmer up and see the crap it pulls out youll be sold on them also. jmo

 

[latino277]

Kip... shouldn't he get the hermit out of the fuge also? I think you told me that once I think it was you?

 

[druluv]

The white foam you see at the beach is natures way of skimming,also once you hook a skimmer up and see the crap it pulls out youll be sold on them also. jmo
The foam that collects at the beaches returns back to the water. I don't think there is any natural foam cup that collects the
foam and disposes it down the drain. Some of the gunk that is exported through the foam is good gunk. Here is and excerpt
from :
Practical fishkeeping
November 2002
Britain's best selling fishkeeping magazine
The downside of skimming is that you are removing a lot of fine materials, both good and bad, the most detrimental being
removal of trace elements that readily adhere to the bubbles. Use-
full bacteria and suspended plankton
are also removed.

 

[druluv]

Hermits in the fuge
In my observation so far, the hermits haven't really bothered the pods. I also have small nano sized live rock so that the pods and worms can hang in.
In addition there is so much detritus and macro algae to feed on.
I also feel that it easier to have for the Hermits to eat the
macro Algae than to be chasing pods around. I was worried that the hermits would eat the bristle and Spaghetti Worms but they seem to ignore them.
Also experimented with the lettuce slug, these must be the stupidest animals. He went straight for the mag 24 pump and got suck up to the main display.:help: Funny thing is that he survived! Lucky

[hr]
. Go figure.

 

[druluv]

actually it is baked away by the sun, eaten by microrganisms, or absorbed into the sand
yep, trace elements adhere to the foam also... but thats what water changes are for.
Do water changes also put back the natural microorganisms
that the skimmer takes out.
When the supply of these micro-organisms is removed,
as in heavy skimming, you won’t have the food chain that goes with it.
In addition:
Reef Keeping
At the beginning of the food chain there are phytoplankton that utilize the light that we provide. This then becomes food for the larger zooplankton, which in turn is food for larger animals like the copepods and amphipods and onwards up the chain. If this chain is broken – as when you use a skimmer - you are unlikely to have the complete chain but only parts of it.

 

[timg]

When I first strarted I believed that a protien skimmer was not necessary. Now I have one and will never think of having a tank without. Protein skimming does eliminate some benifical elements, but the negatives pulled out far exceeds the positive. Just be prepared for frequent frequent water changes or brownish water. The investment is definitely worth it IMO. I would also consider adding another PH to increase your flow. another 1000gph will help keep the detrius(sp) suspended to be filtered out which will help with your nitrate and phosphate levels. It is your tank you options, I am juat stating my opinion.

 

[timg]

When I first strarted I believed that a protien skimmer was not necessary. Now I have one and will never think of having a tank without. Protein skimming does eliminate some benifical elements, but the negatives pulled out far exceeds the positive. Just be prepared for frequent frequent water changes or brownish water. The investment is definitely worth it IMO. I would also consider adding another PH to increase your flow. another 1000gph will help keep the detrius(sp) suspended to be filtered out which will help with your nitrate and phosphate levels. It is your tank you options, I am juat stating my opinion.

 

[druluv]

Fuge and fuge creatures (natural approach and bio-diversity) over protein skimming (water stripping).
The organisms in my fuge contribute significantly to various breakdown processes, and they assist in neutralization of
organic waste material
Sencondly,]
The Caulerpa efficiently removes organic pollutants from the water column, especially nitrates and phosphates.
Moreover,
unlike the lower forms of micro algae used more commonly in algal scrubber filtration systems, Caulerpa, which is a macro
algae, does not need to be harvested as frequently.
Caulerpa also release compounds into the water which aids the fish immune system.
Excerpt:
"Phycocollides are also produced, which are large non-crystalline molecules that are often referred to as seaweed gums. These are similar to the ingredients used in water conditioners for aquaria and when introduced to the water a thin sticky emulsion results, which acts as
a coating agent. These emulsions are called colloides, which, since they diffuse easily through living tissue, can protect fish from skin and gill disorders"
Caulerpa, contain several substances that have a significant antibiotic effect towards fungal diseases and those caused by pathogenic bacteria.
Maybe the new way of quarinting Sick Fish .
Not having a darkening period in the refugium also prevents the Caulerpa from going asexual. When the lights are off is when algae can release organic materials that stain the water.
Which every one is afraid of.
Also the neilsen reactor should help with lowering phosphates.

 

[broomer5]

I've seen beautiful healthy tanks that have a protein skimmer, and I've seen beautiful healthy tanks that do not have a skimmer.
Choices are what makes this hobby fun.

 

[druluv]

broomer5
Yes indeed, I'm not knocking berlin style tanks. My journey is to try replicate the natural reefs we see when we scuba or
snorkel. Not just to have a show piece coral but to have the whole chain that makes show piece beautiful. Basically a snap shot of the ocean.

 

[footbag]

I would use a skimmer if it was my tank. 180g is a lot of $ in corals.
If it takes out too much of the good stuff, imagine how much of the bad stuff it removes. Water changes are used to remove excess nutrients, and to add trace elements. Not using a skimmer will require more water changes to remove nutrients, and fewer to add trace elements. Using a skimmer will require the opposite. Either way you will be doing the same number of water changes, but a skimmer will prevent any significant buildup between water changes. Remember nutrients such as PO4 and NO3 kill corals. A lack of Trace elements such as Iodine can also kill, but are very easily added.

 

[druluv]

Well this will be my experiment. Can I set up a healthy looking reef with no protein skimming?