Newbie needs guide.

[tang_man_montreal]

Hello everyone.
This is my first post here. I was referred here by another member who told me this was the place to find any and all information regarding marine aquariums.
Well, have I ever got questions! lol.
First and foremost, I've been doing quite a bit of reading on and offline regarding all fish, fresh and marine.
I want to set up a tank at home. At first, I was thinking along the lines of African Cichlids because I was afraid of the maintenance associated with Marine aquariums. Although, I've found out that the maintenance is basically the same amongst the two, with the only difference being the initial investment costs. So far so good, right?
So here we go. I need advice, lots of it.
I currently have a 29 Gal tank, but no equipment AT ALL. Just the tank with no stand, cover, or anything which has been sitting unused and neglected for years.
Should I attempt to use this tank as my main tank, or run out and buy a new one (~50 Gal), and keep this tank as a quarantine tank?
What equipment should I buy with either of above solutions?
I don't think Live Rocks are for me. I'm thinking more along the lines of a FO setup.
What is a sump? Why does everyone recommend having a sump? Is it absolutely necessary?
When cycling a tank, I've read about throwing in a dead shrimp (cooked, uncooked? with or without shell? lol) to speed along the cycle. But I've never seen any reference as to when to remove that shrimp from the tank?
Lastly, Are there any mail-order companies in Canada or that ship to Canada? Something like Flying Fish Express? Every mail order company that I've seen thus far don't ship to Canada.
Thank goodness for this board... I'm sure it will prove to be an invaluable tool for me.
Thank you everyone

 

[jacksonpt]

Originally posted by Tang_man_Montreal:
<strong>Hello everyone.
This is my first post here. I was referred here by another member who told me this was the place to find any and all information regarding marine aquariums.</strong>
Welcome aboard!<strong>
Well, have I ever got questions! lol.
First and foremost, I've been doing quite a bit of reading on and offline regarding all fish, fresh and marine.</strong>
Good, reading is the first step. Of all the hobbies I have, this one more than any other requires the most knowledge (not necessarily intelligence), but research and information.<strong>
I want to set up a tank at home. At first, I was thinking along the lines of African Cichlids because I was afraid of the maintenance associated with Marine aquariums. Although, I've found out that the maintenance is basically the same amongst the two, with the only difference being the initial investment costs. So far so good, right?
So here we go. I need advice, lots of it.
I currently have a 29 Gal tank, but no equipment AT ALL. Just the tank with no stand, cover, or anything which has been sitting unused and neglected for years.
Should I attempt to use this tank as my main tank, or run out and buy a new one (~50 Gal), and keep this tank as a quarantine tank?</strong>
The more water you have, the easier it's going to be for you to be successful. More volume makes changes in water quality occur a little slower, thus giving you more time to react. For this reason, a 55g tank with you current 29g tank as a sump/refugium would be a good combo. That would give you almost 80 gallons of water.<strong>
What equipment should I buy with either of above solutions?</strong>
You're going to get some mixed thoughts here... but it all depends on what you want to keep. You mention you're thinking about a FO tank. If that's the case, the I would recommend 4-5" of sand (either all live sand-big bucks, or Southdown Play sand seeded with a little live sand). I'd also recommend 2-3 powerheads to circulate the water. Since you are just getting started, I would also recommend a skimmer, especially if you are thinking about passing on live rock. Skimmers are kind of expensive, but they can make a big difference in your water quality.<strong>
I don't think Live Rocks are for me. I'm thinking more along the lines of a FO setup.
What is a sump? Why does everyone recommend having a sump? Is it absolutely necessary?</strong>
A sump is not absolutely necessary, but can be essential depending on the tank. I'm not going to explain it very well, so you might want to search the board for more info, or wait till someone explains it better, but a sump is a separate part of the tank (typically a smaller tank stored under your display tank) that is setup with various types of filtration media. Water is fed from the display tank into the sump, where the water is filtered, heated, and treated (if necessary, the sump offers a good place to add treatments and additives), then pumped back into the main tank.<strong>
When cycling a tank, I've read about throwing in a dead shrimp (cooked, uncooked? with or without shell? lol) to speed along the cycle. But I've never seen any reference as to when to remove that shrimp from the tank?</strong>
When I cycled my 75g tank, I put in 2 small hermit crabs and a dead fish from my pet store. I left the fish in until it was gone. A week later I added another fish, and left it in there. I tested my water periodically, and once it was stable, I stopped putting dead fish in. I have yet to stock the tank though, so I can't say how well it worked.<strong>
Lastly, Are there any mail-order companies in Canada or that ship to Canada? Something like Flying Fish Express? Every mail order company that I've seen thus far don't ship to Canada.</strong>
That I'm not sure about. You'll probably have to go to the individual sites and see if they ship to Canada... unless you get a reply from a Canadian board member who knows.<strong>
Thank goodness for this board... I'm sure it will prove to be an invaluable tool for me.</strong>
This place will become an addiction. The people are great, and the info never ends.<strong>
Thank you everyone</strong>
That's why we're here... good luck with your tank, let us know what you decide, and keep us posted on your progress.<hr></blockquote>

 

[marty]

Welcome! Sounds like you have a good start on what you about to enter. Before you do make any decisions, I would ask yourself how much do I want to spend. I will share my thoughts about your questions and comments. I have been in this hobby not quite a year now so I have learned alot and seen alot here on this board, but by no means am I an expert. Just willing to give my opinion.
As I said earlier, alot of your thought should be on how much are you willing to spend. If you can afford a new tank and all the other stuff, you should do so. Once you are in this hobby, you will realize it is expensive if you let it be. The more upfront money spent on the RIGHT purchases, the better off in the long run. I capitalized right because everyone will have an opinion about what is right and wrong, you will need to decide that. I personally have bought the wrong equipment than realizing I needed something else.
Anyway, your questions. First your 29 gallon tank vs a new 55 gallon tank. If you can afford a new tank, do so. Bigger tanks allow for more room, not only for fish, but also for water which will allow you to catch errors you make and make adjustments. Plus, in the long run, you should be able to use the 29 as either a quarrantine tank or hospital tank or both. In fact, if you can get something bigger than a 55, you should. The bigger the better for your first tank.
Live rocks - Not sure why you do not want live rocks. They are very natural in looks plus provide beneficial filtration to your system. I started with FO, but have since added 65lbs of live rock to my 80 gallon tank and hope to add more slowly over time. Again, if you can afford some live rock, you should. Several internet sites have some good deals on live rock. For a couple hundred dollars, you should be able to get 50-75lbs which would be nice in a 50 gallon tank.
Equipment - You will need some sort of mechanical filtration system (others can provide more here). I have a fluval 404, seems to be ok, but maintenance is pretty high. I need to rinse the sponges each time I do a water change. Not that this is difficult, but it needs to be done for my system. You will need some powerheads (amount depends on you tank size) for water movement, heater(s), thermometer, and probably a protein skimmer after your tank cycles.
Although I do not have a sump, I have heard they are very beneficial. If you buy a new tank, see if it has predrilled holes for a sump/refugium. A sump basically is another tank that holds your heaters and other filtration equipment. Again others will know more here.
Cycling with shrimp - alot of people recommend this (I do) as it is an humane way of kickstarting the ammonia cycle. I started with damsels and lost most of them due to they couldn't handle the ammonia and nitrite spikes of the cycle. Seeing them suffer makes me want to recommend the shrimp method. As for removing it, I have read that you can leave it in there forever. Eventually it will dissolve (??) or will be eaten by a cleaning crew after your tank is cycled and you add such a crew.
Live in Texas, so I do not know what companies ship to Canada.
Good luck in your new decision to join this wonderful hobby.

 

[steamboat1569]

Yes there a comany that will ship to canada, but they do not have livestock. You can get all the equipment you should need from here.
<a href="http://www.bigalsonline.com" target="_blank">www.bigalsonline.com</a>

 

[steamboat1569]

I also found a place on line that is based in canada. it caries livestock as well as dry goods.
<a href="http://www.customoceans.com" target="_blank">www.customoceans.com</a>

 

[lurch694u]

I've found a place that is in canada and ships all over canada...
<a href="http://www.jlaquatics.com/index.shtml" target="_blank">J&L Aquatics </a>

 

[crew]

Hello and welcome. If you can, buy a bigger tank. For a FO tank a 29 would not stock to many fish depending on what you want. Also most people who start in the hobby always wish they had started with a bigger tank as did I. This way maybe you could have your african cichlids as well. So I would think about those ideas first . Take your time its worth it. I live in B.C. and the two stores I go to are Big Als for both salt and African stuff , but the best store out here for salt is defenatly J&L AQUATICS. jlaquatics.ca HTH p.s. J&L will do fishy mail.

 

[tang_man_montreal]

Thanks for all the input everyone!
Having spoken to some people now, I feel more sure of myself. And I'm thinking it may be easier to go with a FO tank with some LR and LS.
Although, some more questions are now in order.
Saying I go with LS, I hear people talking about "seeding" some playsand with LS. Do you mix the LS into the playsand? OR do you put the LS as a top layer over the playsand?
Also, Do playsand and LS have to be rinsed or washed in a bucket before placing it in a aquarium? I know you have to do this with crushed coral, but does it apply to sand as well?
I've seen some FO setups on the net with LR and LS, but no filters or skimmers. If I started with the 29 Gal tank, how much LR and LS would I need to get the bio-filtration working with no mecahnical help?
I know I'd be limited in terms of fish in the 29 gal tank, but how limited is the question? Would I be able to put a Powder Blue tang and a clown in there, along with a cleaning crew?
On the subject of cleaning crews, what would apply to a 29 gal tank?
I've got more questions, but I can't think of them right now...

 

[marty]

I placed my live sand as the top layer of the play sand I used. It seems to be ok. I have heard people mixing the two before placing it in the tank. Your choice I believe. I did not rinse my playsand, but probably should have some prior to adding. It would have saved some time for everything to settle.
I tried going filterless on a 10 gallon tank for a couple months, but I ended up buying a small whisper filter. It has provided clearer water. Most here will recommend you start with a filter system and depending on your set up after a year or so, maybe then you can slowly remove your filter media. Having a filter system certainly helps with everything.
The powder blue tang would not be a good choice of fish for a 29 gallon. Check out either here or <a href="http://www.***********.com" target="_blank">www.***********.com</a> (I like how they have their descriptions) to look at minimum size tank requirements for each fish. A PB tang I belive needs lots of swimming room and a 70 gal?? is the minimum. The sites also provides max adult size for the fish in length. You typically want to start no less than 1" per every 5 gallons of water. Depending on your set up, you might after several months be able to lower it to 1" to every 2-3 gallons. Be careful and watch the minimum tank sizes.
Cleaning crew - again both sites have some good packages for cleaning crew. Typically you want snails and crabs.
Good luck!

 

[steamboat1569]

On the subject of filtration, I am a big believer in having some sort in a tank. Mainly for the activated carbon benefit. Carbon will clarify water better than anything that I can think of. I have a freind that uses the no filtration method and he is always fighting cloudy water. I have NEVER had cloudy water, and as I have corals that have toxins, if they are releasing any toxins, I know that they are being filtered out. Carbon is the first stage in any RO unit, so you know it's got to be working.
I bought an emporor 400 power filter when I first put up my tank, and have been extremely pleased with it. Since I bought it, they have come down in price dramatically.
Good luck!!

 

[lauren]

in my experiance at scool african chhiclids arn't all that hard to care for, we ad a very long tank, not very tall. we put in about 10 at the begining of thhe school year and thhey reproduce by them selves, altough our aquarium isn't that atractive (only a few rocks for them to hide in) i'm sure that's just a minor detail. i personal would love to have a huge aquarium full of africans but my heart is set on a 200 gallon reef tank

 

[tang_man_montreal]

Hey everyone,
I can't get over all the help that I've received.
You are all an incredible group.
I'm looking into a couple of used tanks in my area, between 60 - 77 gals. All three of them include a Fluval 403 or 404.
I will probably be picking one of these up within a month. I'm thinking of setting it up with Playsand, some LS, and some LR. Although the tank will be mainly a FO tank.
I'm hoping for the 77 gal tank so that I can probably put a Powder Blue Tang in once the tank matures hopefully after 6 months. Which brings me to my next set of questions...
I'm starting to look at fish compatabilites and tank requirements, but I am overwhelmed by all the contradicting information out there.
Can I put the following in a same tank?
(Ofcoarse, not all at the same time)
Pair of percula clowns
1 or 2 Banggai Cardinals
Anemone for clowns (Which one?)
Cleaning crew
Powder Blue Tang
Clown Trigger
I've read that Triggers are very aggressive and will obliterate the cleaning crew. True? Are there any Triggers that aren't as aggressive towards other tankmates?
Maybe a Bi-Color Angelfish instead of the Trigger?
Or a Blue Tang?
Does the cleaning crew go in while the tank is cycling or after it has cycled?
I need help here.. I need to know what my limits are. I want them all...
Sorry for the length of all my posts...

 

[crew]

Hi Tang Man. have you checked out that site at J&L? Anyhow sounds like you want to do it right which is great of coarse but you should study up on a few books about SW. It's all about what you want to keep. Some reef fish and maybe some types of agresive fish might get along at first,but your probly asking for trouble down the road. LR is part of the filter as is LS. Some fish in FO tanks like to eat the live rock or whats growing on it. Hence thats why they are in a FO tanks. Waste of good money if you mix the two. Dwarf angels IE half black,potters,coral beauty etc are probly less risky but you never know, Are you planning on keeping corals? That will play a big roll in what you want to put in your tank as well. I would think a blue tang and a couple of clowns , a cardinal or two would be alright but not the Trigger. Not in a reef. You would add your clean up crew a couple of weeks later.When the cycle was almost complete. The trick to this hobby unfortunatly is patience. The clowns don't need an anenome. It is great to watch them play but it is not vital. Do some searching and reading, and the questions you don't get answered by the books , i'm sure someone would help you here.HTH and good luck

 

[crew]

Sorry i missed a point . You can put LR in a FO tank of coarse but LS would be cheaper. And about LR and LS being part of a filter what I ment was that LR is a big part of the biodiversity of a tank. Helps maintain inverts corals and reef fish etc. Sorry I'm still learnig too!!!!

 

[superman]

Hey tang just a quick note when you have more questions, start a new topic so people dont get confused as to what they should answer. As far as your questions so far, Definitely go with as large a tank as you can afford to setup. You will thank yourself in the future. Everyone wants a bigger tank. As far as the fish I would hold back on the trigger, and if you want a Powder Blue, make sure it is the last fish that you add to the tank. If it isn't it may cause problems for newcomers. Good Luck!
-Superman