nitrate levels

[usinkit]

I have a fish only tank with a V. Lion Fish and a Blue Throat Trigger. The trigger is a very messy eater and hard to keep up with cleaning his food remains. My nitrate levels stay around 60-80ppm. I do 10 gallon water changes vacuming the CC that is about 1/2 deep once a week(would love to change to sand just havent got a game plan to do so yet). At what levels of Nitrates is considered harmful to the fish? I do want to add plant life to the tank but I have not yet researched plants yet. Any help with plants would be appreciated. I do not have a fuge/sump. I run fluva 404, emperor 400 and a protein skimmer. Once a month I clean the sponges and change carbom on both filters. Thanks for any help.

 

[beaslbob]

Although the levels are very believable, I would get a second opinion. I once had a test kit that was too sensitive. That was very fustrating because my macro algae culture tank still read 0.0 although the display was way too high.
As you have found out the nitrAtes are comming from the fish. And filters, cleanings and water changes do not bring them down to 0.0. the only thing that will is plant life. With your fish that soulce be a challenge. I have also heard that refugiums can require up to 40% of display volumn to be effective.
So to get started get some macros in your existing fuge.
you could try some partition in your display to protect the plant life there.
also culture the macros in a seperate container to make sure you always have some.
Although you fish could live indefinately my real concern is not the nitrates but carbon dioxide build up. If your daytime ph falls then the fish would really be at risk. the sooner you get the plant life the better.

 

[usinkit]

I have great gas exchange on the surface of my water and the protein skimmer adds alot of air bubbles to the tank, do you still think there would be a build up of carbon dioxide. I do not have a fuge at all and Iam not ready to incorperate one to my tanks until I can actually see one work and how it is set-up. Can I just set up a 20 gallon tank and grow plant life in their. If so can you tell me what I need in the 20 gallon to get started( live rock,sand and if light is needed what kind). Please be very detailed about setting up a non-attached fuge have no knowledge of keeping plant life. Thanks again for your help.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by usinkit
I have great gas exchange on the surface of my water and the protein skimmer adds alot of air bubbles to the tank, do you still think there would be a build up of carbon dioxide.

it is still possible. With plants the fish's carbon dioxide is consumed. That lowers the total desolved gasses in the tank and "sucks"in air from the surface. And does that whether or not there is any circulation. As long as you daytime ph is still up over 8 or so is probably is not a problem. And yes circulation does increas the gass interchange.
I do not have a fuge at all and Iam not ready to incorperate one to my tanks until I can actually see one work and how it is set-up. Can I just set up a 20 gallon tank and grow plant life in their. If so can you tell me what I need in the 20 gallon to get started( live rock,sand and if light is needed what kind). Please be very detailed about setting up a non-attached fuge have no knowledge of keeping plant life. Thanks again for your help.
Setting up a 20g is exactly what i did. (had an old 20g long laying around). :thinking: Now let me see if I can make this as absolutely complicated as possible.
1) put in 2-3" of play sand (~$3.)
2) fill with the water change water you would throw away
3) add plants.
Oh shucks only three steps. :jumping:
Some circulation (a single powerhead with a sponge pre filter) later helped my macros grow a little better. For lighting, I used two old 18" strip lights that came with my 55g. Just plain old NO Yellowish type bulbs. It took three weeks for nitrates to go from 160++ppm to 0.0. But that will vary with how much plant life you put in there to start.
I then added some to my display and eventually I had enough in my display that the livestock ate less than the new growth. And the ph rose from 7.2-7.4 to 8.2-8.4 and the fish thrived.
I like caulpera profilera (kelp like) and brillo pad (for refugiums). There is also turtle grass which is a true marine plant. I would stay away from the various neat shaped things like shaving brushes or blades with the aggressive fish you have.
For sources first try locals or your LFS. One here will sell a handful for about $6.00 or so.
you could also try a google or ---- search on "macro algas" or saltwater plants.
I all else fails you could email me at beaslbob@aol.com

 

[thomas712]

And now for an answer to your question.
Cut and pasted from deep within my own favorite library
How toxic is nitrate?
There are several different opinions on what represents a safe nitrate level for different varieties of fish and invertebrates. But, in truth, nobody really knows what levels are dangerous for the majority of species. Nitrate toxicity is is still a poorly-researched area, especially with regards to the long-term effects.
What we do know, though, is that few fish are adapted to live in water containing nitrate. Most natural habitats, with the exception of those polluted by man, are relatively nitrate-free. Therefore, you should try to maintain your nitrate level as low as you possibly can.
Importantly, research has shown that it’s more toxic in saltier water, so brackish species and marine fish in poorly maintained aquaria are more at risk than tropical freshwater fish in dirty tanks. But that’s not an excuse to neglect your community tank...
The Ornamental Aquatic Trade Association (OATA) have a set of water quality criteria for aquatic shops. They recommend keeping nitrate levels within 50 mg/l of the levels found in the tapwater supply for freshwater species, and within 40 mg/l of the levels in tapwater for marines. It is recommend keeping the level as low as you can, and below 10 mg/l if you keep sensitive fishes, or inverts.
And some more blubs:
How does nitrate affect my fish?
Nitrate is the least toxic of the elements of the nitrogen cycle and the effects on fish are normally due to long term exposure.
Some of the effects can be summarized as follows:
Poor growth
Loss of appetite
Lethargy
Chronic stress
Reluctance to breed
Increase in gill rate and gasping
General ill health
Delayed wound healing
Clamped fins
And this one:
Nitrate removal
> Dilution
Dilution is the main method used to control nitrate. The trick is ensuring you change enough water regularly enough to control the continual rise in nitrate. Having source water with a low nitrate level helps - use RO water
> Chemical media
Ion-exchange media take in nitrate ions and swap them for others like sodium. These media can be added to external power filters in freshwater only, and can be recharged in strong salty water.
> Enzymes
Enzymes (biological catalysts which speed up reactions) like STMs A-Z Nitrate, are claimed to aid the breakdown of nitrate in both marine and freshwater.
> Natural filtration
Natural filtration techniques based on live rock, plenum, deep sand beds and mud refugiums harbour bacteria capable of reducing nitrate. They are among the best forms of control in the reef tank.
> Biological media
Some special biological media are designed to encourage the growth of bacteria. These help to convert the ammonia and nitrites quickly into nitrates, however you still need a method to deal with the nitrates. Some even try to promote the growth of anerobic bacteria, but with limited sucess.
> Vegetable filtration - BOBS PERSONAL FAVORITE
Algae and aquatic plants feed on a range of nitrogen sources including nitrate, which is why algae proliferates in polluted tanks. Nitrate accumulates in the vacuoles of marine algae and in plant tissues, so by encouraging vegetation to grow and periodically removing it from the system you can help remove nitrate.
> Denitrators
Denitrators are special filters designed to promote the growth of anaerobic bacteria in a very low oxygen environment. These can be very effective, but they need careful setting-up and monitoring otherwise they could start churning out nitrite.
Hope that help answer your question.
Thomas

 

[usinkit]

Thank you very much Beaslbob. I will definately get this up and running this weekend. Why would you think my fish would consume the plant, they are big time meat eaters. Just curious.
Thomas712
I previewed your statement and I will have to read it thourghly when I get home. Thanks alot for your reply.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by usinkit
Thank you very much Beaslbob. I will definately get this up and running this weekend. Why would you think my fish would consume the plant, they are big time meat eaters. Just curious.
...
.
Well hopefully not. But the lion fish has a big big mouth and the trigger sharp teeth. I simply haveno experience with those fish. But my tang and coral beauty do attack the plants in my display.
Hopefully all that will happen is the plant life will provide cover and breakup the display area so each fish feels safer. but just in case, culture the plant life. Besides, the 20g could eventually be a sea horse or other tank. Meanwhile you will have the plant life. And a source of aged nitrate free saltwater.

 

[mailman441]

usinkit, switch to sand now, your going to end up doing anyway and get some other opinions before going with bob's. i think most will agree.

 

[usinkit]

Switching to sand is what i will be doing just dont want too have to move the fish, the lion is 7inches and I dont want to put him in my 20 gallon q,t so i will have to change the sand little by little with the fish in the tank. I have read alot of Bobs post and people do give him alot of slack but I feel he knows his plants and Iam glad he replyed to this thread.