Nitrate Trap?

H

humatime

Guest
One of my tanks seems to have a nitrate trap in it. My nitrates in it have gotten higher and higher and are now off the charts. I got aggressive this week and have cleaned all of the crap out that was hiding in dead spots, under live rock, etc. Changed the filter pads, and have changed a good deal of water. The tank is a 180 + about 40 for the sump. I have changed a total of 180 gallons of water over the past 4 days, and the nitrates are still off the charts.
I use RO water and Oceanic salt. I'm sure my test kit is good, and I've tested my water before it goes into the tank. It comes up fine. I also have another tank, that I've been able to control the nitrates in much better. The only difference between the tanks is the size (55g and 180g). The other difference is that the 180 has been set up for about 2 years and the 55 has been set up for about one year.
Anyways, has anyone else had persistant nitrates like this? Did you track down the nitrates to something that needs to be removed from the tank? Have you resorted to a product like De-Nitrate? Does it work?
Also (final question) are sulfur denitrators worth the price? If I get one do I also need a calcium reactor? Anyone have and rec's for a good brand/model?
Thanks.
 
H

humatime

Guest
Yeah, I've done a good job of getting top layers of the sand clean. I also cleaned in every nook and cranny that I could find, under the liverock, etc. I cleaned out the powerheads. There must either be some hidden nitrate source in the tank. I've done all of the obvious. Maybe in the plumbing to/from the sump, or maybe the nitrates must have been at a truly astronomical number like 400, and are lower now, but are still off the charts for my test kit.
 
chilwil84

chilwil84

Active Member
Az no3 work for lowering ur nitrates and if u have a fowlr adding a chemical is safer than if u have a reef tank i have used it in my reef before i set up a refugium and had no problems but i did not have to use it for too long of a period
 
H

humatime

Guest
The LFS really pushed a product on me yesterday called NitrateLock made by Magnavore. It was pretty expensive ($30 for 50 gallons worth). The guy promised that it would work wonders for me. I googled it and cant find any testimonials on it. Anyone here ever use it? Is it worth the price?
 
sulley

sulley

Member
next time you mix your water for a water change test that water before you put it in. i had a nitrate problem with oceanic salt then switched to intstant ocean and everything was fine.
 
whitey_028

whitey_028

Member
time and water chages imo is the key...Make sure you have lots of surface area open so your gas exchange is proper and good water flow...big water changes arent as good as little constant ones as the live rock will get dry for a few minutes as you are changing the water out and will cause die off and die off = nitrates...take it slow and do if its a 180 gallon tank 10-15-20 gallons a day and keep watching what happens. I had this in my big tank and i tried everything also it was a huge tank crash awhile back due to loss of electricity and that was the only way i could fix it. If you do it this way you should see results in as soon as 1-2 weeks...
 
H

humatime

Guest
I've tested my water before I put it in the tank. Its perfect. I use RO water. As I mentioned I also have another tank, where I am able to keep the nitrates in check with normal water changes.
I do a 10-20% change weekly on normal weeks. But the nitrates have been climbing lately faster than the water changes can compensate for. So over the past week I've done 20-45 gallons a day. The nitrates are still higher than my test kit can indicate.
While I know that ultimately the water changes are helping, there must be some other source of nitrates in the tank. I've checked all of the obvious places and removed all of the obvious culprits. There must be something more subtle though.
 
xdave

xdave

Active Member
When you say "changed the filter pads" do you mean all of them? Never change more than 50% of your filter material at once. That can basically uncycle your tank.
Nitrate lock type products will wrap ions of other elements around the nitrate reportedly protecting life from them. This will not affect you nitrate test results as the nitrate is still there. They don't get rid of the actual underlying problem. I cant tell where the problem is but keep looking. A friend had the same problem, turned out to be a dead eel in the hose. Crabs are notorious for that too.
 
murph

murph

Active Member
What type of sump do you have?
If you have the time, energy, space and funds. I would recommend a large open sump with a deep sand bed.
Maybe a new/used 75 gal tank. Set in place and mix new water right inside allowing for some displacement when you add the DSB. You don't have to get fancy with a bunch of partitioning, just something to keep your sand bed from migrating. I would dedicate at least half of the tank to the DSB and perhaps some macros. The other half can be used to rig up some filtration and a skimmer. Layer in a DSB of at least six inches. There are also those that report drastic decrease in nitrate levels using a DSB in a five gallon bucket which would fit easily. Possibly even in your existing sump or plumbed out somehow. Worth a shot in the short term but give it at least a month to work.
The introduction of the new water to the system alone should bring down nitrates substantially and cause little to no disruption to the display. The fact that you are shifting a lot of rock around and stirring up your existing sand bed could be one of the reasons your not seeing a drop in nitrates as you do water changes to the existing system.
A sand bed of improper depth in your display could also be your nitrate trap. Most recomendations are a DSB of over four inches or a shallow of under an inch. Anything in between is a trap for organics that can be neither removed by circulation in the case of a shallow sand bed or processed out by anarobic bacteria which can exist in only deep sand beds.
Hope this helped and good luck getting things back in order.
 
H

humatime

Guest
Thanks for the tips. I dont have any missing livestock, so I'm sure there are no dead fishes, but I wonder if maybe some macro alge got pulled into the plumbing and got stuck, then started catching garbage on the way through.
In the display tank I think I have at least 4" of sand, but I'll double check. The depth tends to shrink over time since some gets sucked out from occasionally, but I have a bunch of sand in reserve that I can add if needed. In the sump I have no sand though. I have been thinking of redoing my sump though. Maybe now would be a good time.
Funny thing... I was talking with a guy at another LFS today. I was telling him about the nitrate problems and how I've done substantial water changes, but havent seen much of a change yet. He said "water changes are useless and help almost nothing." :notsure: I didnt probe any deeper to get him to qualify that statement.
 
murph

murph

Active Member
I tend to disagree with your LFS. Simply put dilution is the solution to pollution. The pollution in this case is your nitrates.
From my experience building up the sand bed in your display tank should not be a problem as long as you do it in small areas at a time. Where talking over the course of weeks. A remote DSB in a sump has other advantages however. A lot of talk gets thrown around about DSBs crashing and in the case of a remote DSB in a sump its simply a matter of shutting down the plumbing if such an occurrence is suspect.
Keep in mind that DSBs should have something to keep the top layer of the bed stirred. Nassarius(SP?) snails are outstanding at this. Figure one per gallon of the area your sand bed is. For example if you install a 75 gal sump and half of that is DSB you need 35 or so of the snails. Added benefit is they are quite entertaining, popping out of the sand bed like popcorn at the slightest hint of food being introduced to the system.
Thankfully they can be had for quite cheap at about a buck a piece and the addition of them to your display tank could go a long way in helping to cure your problem also.
 
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