nitrates higher than my roof

[heddy]

let me start by saying that i keep very very close eyes on my tank/levels/changes. i do 10% water changes every other week and test the water roughly monthly.
that being said.... i was about to do a water change and thought, hmmm lets just check all the levels of the water, just to be sure again, that everything is okay, as it ALWAYS is. yeah, well, surprise! nitrates were higher than the damn card could measure (color = super super red). tested twice just in case i did it wrong. so, i took out 10 gallons and have so far replaced 5 (cuz i was only anticipating a 10% change, not 20%) second 5 gallon is mixing and heating right now.
how often can i change out the water safely? is there a limit? how fast should this help? so far everyone is healthy in the tank, did notice my red knobby star contorting into funny shapes yesterday......
tank is 54 corner
70+lbs live rock
60lbs sand
eheim pro2
protein skimmer
dorie tang (she is moving to a bigger tank hopefully this summer)- she is approx 4 inches long now
kole tang (small)
cba
maroon clown
dozens of hermits, cleaner shrimp, cbs, 2 emerald crabs, brittle star, red knobby star, mushrooms, 12 snails
oh, all the other levels were as follows:
nitrite = 0.25
ph = 7.8 (added buffer)
ammonia = 0
phosphate 0.5 (i have 2 phosphate binder things in the filter - about a month now, number is the same as last time i checked)
nitrate = higher than i could measure
this was all tested using the saltwater master liquid test kit.
can it be assumed that this is why i have had a slight green algae bloom?
thanks guys for any help or suggestions!
:help: :happyfish :happyfish :help:

 

[heddy]

should i keep the lights off for a few days? to control the green hairy algae? will the mushrooms be okay if i do this?
sorry for all the questions, i just dont want to lose anyone in my tank!!!
thanks again!

 

[jonnywater]

Testing once a month and doing a 10% water change bi-weekly, isnt exactly what most of us would call "paying close attention" too. I do 25% water changes weekly and that is on all my tanks. I have one 55 and change out 12 gallons a week. You have some pretty big waste producing fish to do such a small amount of water changes. With your PH being that low also you probably lost some bacteria. Then when is the last time that you changed or checked your filter media? I know my rule of thumb is atleast 3 times a week. I have seen it go from nothing one day, to completely covered the next. Or go two weeks without needing to be rinsed.

 

[sufunk]

If you have a refractometer, you can do a 25% water change every single day as long as you match the SG and temp perfectly.
I was in the same predicament a month ago( the test was so red it was glowing!), ive been doing between a 15-33% water change every 2-3 days and sometimes every day for the last 30 days. Im down to 7 on my Nitrates now

 

[ctgretzky9]

Originally Posted by heddy
how often can i change out the water safely? is there a limit? how fast should this help? so far everyone is healthy in the tank, did notice my red knobby star contorting into funny shapes yesterday......
There is no specfics, but 10% every 2 weeks is not adequate imo. You should be closer to that per week, if not a little more.
As far as the star...how old is your tank?
Originally Posted by heddy
ph = 7.8 (added buffer)
no...buffer is NOT going to raise your pH. Buffer protects the pH. It will give you a false improvement in the pH, but it will drop right back a day or two later. To raise pH, you must do some water changes...PROPER water changes of water that has reached equilibrium (24 hrs or more of circulation then test pH)
You are adding buffer...have you tested your alk and calc? Get your alk tested.
ALSO...dump or empty the Eheim filter of media. It is contributing to your nitrates if it is not cleaned at least once a week....if you have a skimmer, dump it altogether. Canisters are terrible for marine.
what protein skimmer do you have?

 

[heddy]

look, i thought i was doing the right things.... obviously not.
guys at the fish store said to change filters every 4-6 weeks.... that is probably the biggest part of my problem....?????
if i am understanding right (ctgretzky) i should dump the entire contents of my filter... everything, the media thats in there too?
i will do the weekly filter changes now that i know. last change was 3 weeks ago...
i have a seaclone 100 protein skimmer that i have had no problems with..... i did dump it and clean it thoroughly
have tested calcium, it was 420-440
if not the canister, what do you recommend?

 

[heddy]

just under 1 year old.... calcium test was 3 weeks ago (only added buffer once, recently)

 

[ctgretzky9]

Originally Posted by heddy
look, i thought i was doing the right things.... obviously not.
guys at the fish store said to change filters every 4-6 weeks.... that is probably the biggest part of my problem....?????
if i am understanding right (ctgretzky) i should dump the entire contents of my filter... everything, the media thats in there too?
i will do the weekly filter changes now that i know. last change was 3 weeks ago...
i have a seaclone 100 protein skimmer that i have had no problems with..... i did dump it and clean it thoroughly
have tested calcium, it was 420-440
if not the canister, what do you recommend?
Oh no...they said every 4-6 weeks for filter medium change? Yes, I would dare say that is your biggest poblem right there.
Filter medium, if you choose to keep it, should never go more than a week if you are looking to control nitrates, and even then, they are still contributing rather than exporting.
If you have a protein skimmer, and it is functioning correctly, your filter medium is fighting against the skimmer. While the skimmer is exporting, the filter is contributing. Particulate and "slime" build up/get trapped on the filter medium, and basically rots there.
The canister, if you are going to keep it, in my opinion, should run free of any floss at all. You could use it to put some carbon in, or even add some phosban (if you have a phosphate problem say) Keep in mind, even carbon should be changed out periodically, depending on the quality of carbon you get. Follow manufacturers instructions for marine tanks.
I had a canister for a while even empty, and after a month decided to open it up...it was still filled with gunk. I ditched it, and tank had better test results soon after. I would dump the canister all together if i were you.
What to use instead of canister....I now use a hang on back wet/dry, empty of filter material, to use to put my carbon and phosban when needed. Works better, gives surface agitation, a place to dose my b-ionic, and is easy to clean when needed.
That aside, as the hang on is just my own preference and works great for me, you dont really need anything with the skimmer, except a couple of good powerheads to keep the flow rate high. I just find the hob wet/dry works for me.

 

[dragonladylea]

I agree with the "surfer dude" you do not need any other filtration. I only use the protein skimmer on my tank. I have a 35 Hex and had high nitrates forever until I did the following.
1. Got rid of the crushed coral and switched to sand
2. Did 25% water changes every week for the first two months
3. Now do 10-15% water changes every week.
4. Got some Halimeda and Red Gracilara Algae (since I dont run a fuge or filter)
5. Got some xenia (also uses nitrates)
Also always use RO/DI water and Ive read quite a few posts here and other places that say adding clams help (not the pretty ones). I also use Rwophos to remove any phospates.
I'm sure there are many other ways but this worked for me and my tank looks great now.

 

[ophiura]

Have you had your results verified at another LFS using a different test kit. The saltwater liquid master test kit is not a particularly accurate test I am afraid.

 

[heddy]

thanks everyone for the input! i have been changing the water every other day and am down to 20.
as far as just disconnecting the cannister filter... if i understand correctly, you all just use a protein skimmer? and powerheads?
what is floss? is that the top white layer of the filter that gets dirty really fast?
can anyone offer a name brand of a HOB filter?
thank you all soo much. (my fish thank you too)
i am soo embarrassed that i caused this, i feel sorry for my fish. poor things. probably wondering what happened to their ocean.....

 

[heddy]

have not had the test results verified.... will do that thanks

 

[ctgretzky9]

Originally Posted by heddy
thanks everyone for the input! i have been changing the water every other day and am down to 20.
as far as just disconnecting the cannister filter... if i understand correctly, you all just use a protein skimmer? and powerheads?
what is floss? is that the top white layer of the filter that gets dirty really fast?
can anyone offer a name brand of a HOB filter?
thank you all soo much. (my fish thank you too)
i am soo embarrassed that i caused this, i feel sorry for my fish. poor things. probably wondering what happened to their ocean.....

Yes, all you need is a good protein skimmer, and a lot of flow (powerheads or the like).
Floss is what I consider in a general description, anything that can trap particulate...including the "white cotton ball" stuff, any foam type pads....anything like this.
I have a Millenium 2000 HOB, empty of any floss or pads. I run carbon in it and phosban. Each of these 2 granular substances are in a mesh bag specifically designed for such applications. Your lfs will know the bags you need.
There are a few good HOB filter units. Pick whicher fits your space and budget...all it really needs to do is provide surface agitation, and give you a place to run carbon, and I like it because that is where I dose anything I need to, as it mixes it up well before it goes into the water column.
You don't NEED a hob, I just feel it works good for what I need, since I dont have a sump.
Pic of my "top" set up:

 

[heddy]

ctgretzky9:
can i just stop using my eheim? should i leave it connected? can i just try leaving it off and see if it helps?
sorry if these seem like beginner questions!!!!!
the pic you showed - was that the protein skimmer on the lft and the hob on the right? i guess i thought the hob were not as good as a canister...... hmmmpf!!!! guess i found out the hard way
how many power heads would you recommend for a 54 corner tank ? i have 2 in there now and the protein skimmer...
thanks again for all the help
(numbers are climbing again)
hooray :notsure:

 

[ctgretzky9]

Originally Posted by heddy
ctgretzky9:
can i just stop using my eheim? should i leave it connected? can i just try leaving it off and see if it helps?
sorry if these seem like beginner questions!!!!!
the pic you showed - was that the protein skimmer on the lft and the hob on the right? i guess i thought the hob were not as good as a canister...... hmmmpf!!!! guess i found out the hard way
how many power heads would you recommend for a 54 corner tank ? i have 2 in there now and the protein skimmer...
thanks again for all the help
(numbers are climbing again)
hooray :notsure:

I used to have a cascade 1000 canister. Trates were always around the 20-40 range I believe directly related to that unit. (and it WAS already completely empty-used it almost like a powerhead) I would clean it once a month, because it was frankly a pain to clean. And everytime I did clean it, it was filled with gook.
I say dump it. It is really just a place for detrius to collect, with no life to clean it up. A HOB is simple to take off the tank and clean in minutes, compared to the 20 minutes or so to disconnect, clean, reconnect the canister, plus the HOB will provide surface agitation.
Yes, skimmer on left, hob on right.
Powerheads...what size are they? A decent, general rule of thumb is you want AROUND 20x turnover rate per hour. It is a general rule of thumb, some say 10X, some say more than 20x. So for a 54 gal, you want a tunrove rate of AROUND 1000gph, including powerheads, your hob (or canister) and to a lesser degree the skimmer (for the skimmer, I would use only half of the gph, as to me it doesnt really provide "flow" like heads or hob). Keep in mind, this 20x is general, anything around that should be fine. Check the gph on your powerheads and figure out what you got.
Numbers are climbing...been doing good water changes? I am going to post a thread about water changes....look for it...
There are no beginner q's, dont be silly. I still learn things everyday, as do most people in the hobby. Otherwise, it would get boring. No one knows everything.