Nitrates

[a0b915]

What's up?
Just wondering how I can get and keep my nitrate levels down to a manageable level? I have a 58 gallon tank with good readings other than my nitrates. I have cut back on feeding the fish, done two ten gallon water changes in the last month, and have a protein skimmer that seems to be running properly.
Thanks for all the help.
JD

 

[snipe]

Well how high are your nitrates? For a fish only tank it should be 30ppm "parts per million" or lower. For a Reef tank it should be 20ppm or lower.

 

[a0b915]

Snipe
Thanks for the reply. My nitrate level are at about 30ppm, but i do have a rbta and a green open brain. My tank was given to me from a friend so i am learning as i go. The livestock in my tank consists of
2 clown fish
1 yellow tang
1 royal gramma
1 red spotted blenny
numerous hermits
3 snails
When i received the tank it was in pretty bad shape, and i have had to do some work to get the levels settled down.
specific gravity is 1.024
ammonia 0
nitrites 0
calcium 430 ppm
alk/kh test? reads 6, which is within the instructions
temp 78-80
sump with ventrie style protein skimmer (brand unknown)
JBJ lighting 192 total watts
2 power heads
i am interested in new lighting, but if i can't get the nitrates down and keep things living no sense in lights. i have two snail casualties, but they got stuck to my powerhead and died.
once again thank you to anyone with some sound advise for an overwhelmed newbie.
JD

 

[lion_crazz]

Feed the fish every other day, and get started with your water changes. Start with 40% water changes for the next two weeks, and then do 20% water changes for two weeks after that, and then do 10% per week after that. That should really help get your trates down. Remember though, if you continue to overfeed while doing this, the water changes will be pointless. When you do the water changes, get deep into your substrate and move any decorations or rock you have in the tank.
What kind of substrate do you have? How thick is it?
Do you have any live rock? If you are looking to turn it more to a reef with better lighting and more corals, live rock is a must, and would be a good investment. It does not matter how much you buy at a time. No matter what, you will have to bring it home and cure it for 3-6 weeks if it is uncured rock.

 

[a0b915]

my current tank has a dsb base of about two inches and the tank has a considerable amount of live rock in it. my friend helped move it over to my house from his because he was moving and i think he thought the tank was a hassle. i didn't weigh the live rock, but it appears to me after looking at several pictures on this site that i have plenty of live rock, or maybe to much.
When i do a water change i have been syphoning through all the exposed sand. Do i need to break down the rock wall to get under all the lower level rocks or just get where i can?
my ultimate goal is to turn it into a nice reef adding only coral from now on. i work all night, but tommorrow morning i will try to post some pictures to give you all a better idea of what i am dealing with.
the LFS rep i have visited is trying to sell me a nitrate reactor. he says it is new on the market, and it will bring the nitrates down to 0 and keep them there. the price for this thing is $200.00. any info on these or will the consistant water changes bring the nitrates down so i can spend the money on better lights.
the wife really likes feeding the fish, so i had to ban her from any fish tank maintenance.
thanks for all the great info, and i am now completely addicted.
JD

 

[lion_crazz]

Forget about the nitrate reactor. As for your water changes, I would consider moving the rock to stir up the substate a bit so that all that dirt under the rock can get sucked up. If it's a dsb, you do not want to siphon deep into it, but make sure you get all the dirt that is on top of it. Then, get some good cleaners to work in your dsb. Consider getting maybe 30-40 blue legged hermits, and 10 turbo/astrea snails. If you can get mexican turbos, go for them. Otherwise, do astrea snails.
Also, try to see if you can get a mini-fuge running in your sump (away from your pumps). Throw a clump of chaeto (spagetti algae) in there (not calurpa) and run a cheap light on the sump just to give the plants some light. This will bring your nitrates down quite a bit overtime once they start growing. I did this in my wet/dry and it has helped me greatly. As for a light, I use a $15 power compact light I got at Home Depot.

 

[a0b915]

alright, this brings me to my next question. i was told i had a dsb, but maybe i don't. the LFS set up the tank originally, but he is also the guy that is telling me to clean the sand all the way down to the bottom and remove all the dark crap from the bottom of the sand. after the moving of the tank some of the sand shifted around and left some rather thin areas, so the LFS sold me a bad of sand, told me to fill in the then areas and everything would be fine. i don't recall the name of the sand i put in the tank, but it came in a blueish bag and was moist. this site has taught me a lot, but most importantly is has shown me to investigate things completely before i make any changes or decisions. to bad i didn't find this site about three months ago.
the sump is to small to set a mini-fuge i believe. the water enters the sump from my overflow box, runs through my protein skimmer and over a ledge onto a poly filter. under the poly filter a have a white porous media the LFS told me is used to create optimal growing conditions for healthy bacteria. from there the water goes through a small opening on the bottom of the media container into a holding area for the return pump. does all this sound right?
is the white porous media benificial or could i start a mini-fuge there?
i appreciate your patience in helping me with all my questions. i sometimes feel my LFS doesn't want to make time for my questions just wants to sell me a quick fix.
JD

 

[lion_crazz]

Originally posted by a0b915
i was told i had a dsb, but maybe i don't.
You may have a deep sand bed, but you really want a deep LIVE sand bed. If there is nothing live in the sand bed eating all the detritus, then having the sand there is useless because all the dirt is building up there with nothing taking it out.
Originally posted by a0b915
to clean the sand all the way down to the bottom and remove all the dark crap from the bottom of the sand.
This is what you would want to do if you had aragonite or crushed coral. However, sand, especially a deep sand bed, is almost impossible to fully clean, thus the reason you have nitrate levels of 30 ppm. I would try to get the live critters in there, like I suggested above. I would do about 30 hermits, 10 astrea snails, a few serpent stars (not brittle!) and you will have some cleaning going on. However, if you do not want to take this approach, you could just take all the sand out of the tank and replace the sand with aragonite. It is a little thicker, and would be much easier to clean. You would not put a deep layer, just enough to cover the glass so that you could clean it easier. (If you decide to do this, siphon all the sand out and put it in a porous bag in your sump for a few days because a lot of your good bacteria is in this sand, and by taking it out completely, you would be removing a lot of beneficial bacteria from your tank, thus possibly starting a mini cycle in your tank again.)
Originally posted by a0b915
the sump is to small to set a mini-fuge i believe. the water enters the sump from my overflow box, runs through my protein skimmer and over a ledge onto a poly filter. under the poly filter a have a white porous media the LFS told me is used to create optimal growing conditions for healthy bacteria.
Your sump sounds fine, however, I am still not sure what you are referring to as your "white porous media" for bacteria growth. If you have a lot of live rock (1lb per gallon), you do not need that media. That's just extra. All of your good bacteria is growing on your live rock. I do not know how large this area is, if it accessible to get some light to, but if you have enough live rock, and enough space in the sump for some chaeto, it would be a good idea to put some in there with a light shining on it.
Hope some of this helps. If there is anything else, or anything you need clarified, please be sure to ask!

 

[a0b915]

Thanks for all the useful info lion. I am going to take pictures tonight, i ended up sleeping all day after the night shift. I will make sure to post them to help illustrate the white substrate in my sump.
I have another question regarding test kits. I have read on this site that the dip test strips aren't very reliable, and that salifert test kits are the best. I stopped by the LFS today and pick up the only nitrate specific test i could find. This happened to be a part of the Red Sea Reef Lab test kit. I did a test and this test said i had only 2.5 ppm nitrates. The LFS tests customer water with the test strips and said they were accurate and suggested them to me for my home tester. Is the Red Sea accurate to your knowledge?
Pictures soon.
JD

 

[mudplayerx]

Put algae and plants in your sump, they will soak up a LOT of nitrates. If you don't have a sump, you can put algae in nylon stockings and loat them in the display tank.

 

[bill f]

2 inches would not be considered a DSB. 2 inches won't allow for the aerobic/anaerobic change over. For that you need about 4 inches.
refuge and water changes are the way to go.

 

[a0b915]

tank picture

 

[a0b915]

sump, bottom left is the white substrate

 

[a0b915]

thanks for all the help!! this site has taught me so much. anymore info would be greatly appreciated especially any advise on the red sea reef lab test kit. one last picture, not the fish but the other interest in my household.
JD

 

[snipe]

Cool rockwork and nice open brain. On the sump looks like it needs alittle cleanin alot of algea and such going on there "but hey I cant stand for things to be cluttered or dirty". On the dogs there awsome whats up with the one on the right is it just fat or is it pregnant or old. I have a dog in my life he is about 8 months and only around 5 to 6 lbs he is just so neat he loves me to play and to sleep.

 

[a0b915]

Dog on right is a little overweight, but it is also shedding like mad right now. When he sheds his undercoat it makes him look bigger than he really is. Minnesota weather makes it difficult for me to get him out for his daily runs, just to damn cold. Any word on the red sea reef lab test kit.
JD

 

[lion_crazz]

JD, the Red Sea test kit is pretty accurate and reliable. I like Red Sea, however, like you were told, the Salifert is definitely the most accurate. I have used Red Sea before though and the times I have used it, it has been very close to what the salifert reading was.
As for your sump, here is what I would do if I were in your position. Remove the white substrate, and fill that spot with rubble rock and chaetomorpha. Since chaetomorpha is a floating type of plant, it will go on top of the rubble rock (the rubble rock will just help you get a little more biological in there, and take up the space on the bottom where the chaeto is not. The only issue with this idea is that you will need to somehow get the chaeto some light. There are two ways of doing this. You could either remove the white poly fiber pad that you have in the sump and put a small PC strip light on top of the sump, or you could do what I did with my wet/dry and put the light next to the sump. Since I could not put my light on top, I was forced to put the light next to the wet/dry and have it shine through the side, through the plexiglass. Although this does reduce the light intensity a little bit, it has not really affected the usefulness of the chaeto. The only negative with having the light on the side is that I get a little algae growth on the side that I have to wipe off every so often (no big deal). The type of light I used was from Home Depot and it is one that you would use as a type of garden light/spotlight, with a flat base so that I could easily sit it on the base of my wet/dry (very small). As for the bulb, I used a 60watt power compact swirl light bulb.
You may not even need to set this whole thing up however. I simply like the idea of doing everything natural, and I have a pretty heavy bioload, thus it helps me keep the nitrates down a lot. However, you may just have high nitrates because the sand you have in the tank is so hard to clean. As long as you do not overfeed the fish, and keep the tank on a weekly 10% water change, you could probably keep the nitrates in a light bioload tank very low.
By the way, I like your tank a lot and those dogs are beautiful!