Nitrates

[lmforbis]

For the last few months I have had issues with nitrates. Both ammonia and nitrites are 0 as is phosphate (probably not really that low but I do run GFO). I think it started towards the end of summer when I had surgery twice that resulted in 10 lb lift restriction for a few weeks. I didn't get as many water changes in as normal. I started to get hair algae in late September. I ended up with another surgery end of October and another 6 weeks of lift restrictions. I was only doing small water changes every 2-3 weeks. About a month ago in my bigger tank I lost a couple fish for no apparent reason and a couple of corals died. My normal water change schedule is 10% every week. About 3 weeks ago I started a more aggressive water change schedule of 20% every 4 - 5 days on both tanks. Nitrates are still high at around 15 but maybe half of what they were, the test (seachem) is kind of hard to read.
Along with increased water changes I have made a point of not over feeding. One tank is a 125 with a 29 gal sump. I have 7 small fish, largest is a 2.5" saddle back butterfly fish. They shouldn't create too much waste. The other tank is a 40b with a 16 gallon sump. I have a small oscelaris and a small orchid dottyback. Both tanks have assorted snails and hermits and a couple shrimp.
My question is what other sources of nitrates are there and what can I do to limit them.

 

[snakeblitz33]

1. Overfeeding
2. Feeding food high in phosphate and nitate.
3. Bad test kit giving improper readings.
4. Bad top off water... Must have TDS meter.
5. Bad salt mix that contains some nitrate or phosphate.
6. Rocks internally leaching nitrate or phosphate into the system.
7. Ghosts.
8. Built up detritus in the system that hasn't been removed.
9. Built up organics in the sandbed.
10. Improperly working skimmer
11. Not harvesting the algae off the algae scrubber.
12. Coral foods that contain nitrates, phosphates or organic matter.
13. Chemicals that may contain nitrates and phosphates.
14. Dead algae leaching nutrients back into the system.

Just a few things that come to mind.

 

[lmforbis]

Just a few, lol. I appreciate the input.
Food claims to be low in NO3 and PO4 and I only feed what they can eat in a couple minutes. I rinse frozen.
I actually ordered a new salifert test kit yesterday. The SeaChem has a control that I ran and it read exactly what it should.
I tested both the water and freshly mixed salt water a couple weeks ago and both were 0
I did consider the rocks as a possible source especially since the hair algae isn't everywhere. Some rocks have none some have a lot.
I certainly can't rule out ghosts or aliens.
Skimmer seems to be working great, plenty of nasty green liquid every week. And no algae scrubber.
I don't add anything but BRS 2 part and not much of that
RODI is giving me 0 TDS. just replaced the filters a couple weeks ago.

The dead algae is a possible. I added more chaeto morpha to my fudge a couple weeks ago and it died. Not sure what to think about that. I had been growing lots of it, harvesting regularly then it stopped growing and up and died. I bought more and added it to both fudges. I also put a small amount in my QT and it is doing great.

I'll keep on changing water and hopefully will be able to gradually lower the levels.

 

[lmforbis]

Today I did a thorough cleaning of my rocks. Blasted them with a power head. Attached a filter socks on the drain line. I don't usually use them but want to catch the crap I blew out of the rocks. I'll remove it later today. I cleaned both Jaebo power heads and the covers to the overflows. I pulled a bunch of the algae off the rocks. It comes off really easy. Does that mean it is on the decline? I'm getting ready to do a 25-30 gallon water change on my 125. I did a 10 gallon water change on the 40b yesterday. Tomorrow I'll change the GFO and carbon on both tanks.

 

[flower]

Just something to consider... I doubt this is your issue, since you have hair algae and other problems because you couldn't do water changes. I'm going to put it out there anyway, just in case.

I drove myself batty over nitrates. I would do a water change, and by morning the kit would read 80, but my shrimp and corals were just fine, when with a nitrate that high they should be dead. Turns out I was using API test kits. When I went to SeaChem kits (which comes with a regent to be able to double check the results) it turns out my nitrates were 1 not 80.

 

[lmforbis]

I use the SeaChem test. I did run their control as well. I ordered a salifert test yesterday to double check. My inverts seem fine, I have a Halloween urchin, linkia star, brittle star, assorted shrimp and hermits. Some corals are declining. My first test about 3.5 weeks ago was around 100. It tested better yesterday around 15-20. I did a 25% water change on both tanks so I'll test with both kits when I get home.

 

[beth]

What filters are you using?

 

[lmforbis]

I have a BRS dual GFO/carbon reactor change GFO every 6 weeks and carbon every 2 weeks
Reef octopus classic 150 6" skimmer
A sump with rock in it (chaeto died)
I use filter socks only when I stir things up.

 

[beth]

I'm assuming you have live rock and live sand? My personal experience is that canister type filters tend to create situations where nitrates become an issue. The more you lean toward natural filtration, the better your water quality. Is your source water testing nitrate-free?

 

[lmforbis]

Yes I tested both the RODI and the fresh mixed salt water.
Never used a canister on these tanks. Just live rock. Sand wasn't live when I put it in but should be now.

 

[beth]

I guess I meant that the GFO falls into the canister category (at least by me). What other media is used in the GFO?

 

[lmforbis]

Just GFO

 

[beaslbob]

nitrates (along with ammonia, nitrItes, carbon dioxide, phosphates, probably more) come overwhelming from the bioload.

1) some nitrates in algae rich system can be a sign the algae is consuming ammonia and forgoing nitrates for nitrogen.

2) the best thing to do is increase nitrate consumers. with algae being the prime method.

my .02

 

[lmforbis]

Tried that put macros in my sump and within a week they were dead.

 

[lmforbis]

I tested both tanks with the salifert test. The nitrates were between 50 and 100. It looked closer to 100 though. I like this test kit better than the seachem at least as far as reading the results. I guess I have a few more waterchanges in my future. I ordered a new box of Reef Crystals, they are due to arrive Monday.
I also added some bio pure media to my sumps. I've been wanting to try it for a while. Don't know if it will help anything or not but worth a try.

 

[beth]

What I'm trying to say is that mechanical filters tend to not be so good at dealing with nitrates, and, in fact, the media in them help to create nitrates since waste gets trapped in them with a very slow rate of breaking down--this results in high nitrates. True that carbon is also a chemical filter, but in a reef system, it is probably not the best choice to use carbon full time anyway. I'd look for the simplest answer first, and frequently the use of mechanical filters=high nitrates.

 

[lmforbis]

I also changed all the media today so hopefully that will help as well. Maybe I'll start using less media and changing it weekly.

 

[beth]

I'm assuming you have a reef tank? Is the problem with the 125 or 40? How much live rock in the tank? What do you have for circulation? 15 is not outrageously high nitrates either, but you have coral and maco die off.

What media are you using aside from the carbon?

In my exp., its hard to kill off cheato. Was it a small piece being nibbled on?

What lighting do you have on your tank? Do you have a reason for the coral dying?

 

[lmforbis]

Both tanks have high nitrates. The 40 has lower nitrates than the 125 but when I tested them yesterday with a salifert kit they were both over 50. Prior to that I had been using the SeaChem test which I find higher to read. Most of my coral is in The 40 but not much yet. I have a butterfly in the 125 so I can't put much coral in it.

I bought a large chunk of chaeto, 1/2 lb from Algen and split it between the two sumps and put a small chunk in my QT as well, where I have a yellow tang. The chunk in the QT is fine but will be dumped when the fish is moved out.

I also run GFO. Could I be stripping too much phosphate from the water causing the chaeto to die? It used to grow like crazy. I'll have to test the phosphate this afternoon.

I have about 100 lb of rock in my 125 and 50 lb in my 40.

 

[beth]

What is your calcium level?

If it were me, I would only use the CFO occasionally and only high quality carbon to polish the water. In a reef tank, it is best to allow natural filters to balance your system (IMO). Spend your money on those natural filters and the best skimmer you can afford.