nitrites rising

frozenguy

Member
as you can tell by my other posts, i just recently added a few fish (yesturday afternoon)....my nitrites and ammonia have raised
ammonia-.25 (that is what it is at now) (was at 0)
nitrites-.25(was at 0)
it has been cycling since the 10th of january so about 17 days......
my levels went down completely...until now....should i do a water change? and how much water? it is a 25 gallon....
 

ophiura

Active Member
You are in big trouble I am afraid, and I would get some of those fish back the the LFS ASAP. How, exactly did you cycle your tank? With just LR or with shrimp too? I suspect the tank was never 'pushed' or challenged, and you are actually cycling it now, with all of those fish and all of that money invested.
Yes, you can do some water changes, cut back on feeding, but more than anything take some of those fish back immediately...even ask if they will just hold them for you. It will be an uphill battle with all of those fish in there. Your clowns might make it, but the others are questionable.
FYI, most cycles take 4-8 weeks to finish.
This is my opinion at least.
 

frozenguy

Member
REALLY?
ggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
the lfs said my tank was cycled.......and i know they arn't just selling the fish for the money......i know them......
cant i just watch the levels for like another day and see if they go up more?
also, if i do a water change......how much should i change it and how often.....
 
T

thomas712

Guest
:eek: 17 days! How did you start your cycle, with just the live rock? And you have 3 fish and an eel right now! A rash move. I would say you have moved way to fast here, you haven't even hit the algea stages yet. On average it takes at least a month to cycle a tank, depending on other factors ie...amount of liverock, live sand, filtration...etc... You have moved to fast for your bioload to handle and you may be in for a rough time.
At this point I would get some of the cycle bacteria and see if you can speed things up or take those fish and eel back to the store and then finish your cycle. If your ammonia and nitrites get out of hand you will need to do some small water changes, but this does not really help the cycle except to lengthin it.
Thomas
 

frozenguy

Member
ok.....so can someone tell me if i can just do a water change today....and watch the levels? i mean if they stay at .25/.25 for a few days and then go down, that isn't bad, is it?
how much water should i change though? and how often?
 

dreeves

Active Member
Do a 10-15% water change. Monitor your levels, and adjust the water changes accordingly. If need be...change the 10-15% every two days or so.
Oh and use this as a learning experience for you. Everything with marine tanks is slow and deliberate.
 
T

thomas712

Guest
Never do a fast water change. Get 3- 5 gallons working tonight and let it sit for 24 hours with a powerhead and heater if you can. This will allow the salt to properly mix in the water, the PH will help oxygenate the water, and the heater...need I explain.. If you were to do a mix and dump water change this too could upset the system and raise your ph, its harsh on the animals and very upseting to corals that can suffer from salt burn.
After 24 hours I would check your levels again and if they are on the rise then you could do say a 3 gal water change on that 25 gal tank.
Thomas
:D I seem to be surrounded by sharks tonight
 

frozenguy

Member
well, i can take the powerhead already in the tank out and put it in a bucket.....but unfortunatly, i only have 2 gallons of ro water.....should i dump that in a bucket and put some salt in it and then the powerhead and let it sit till tomorrow morning then take out about 2 gallons and put in the new water?
or can i even take out about 3 gallons tonight and add the almost 2 gallons to the bucket and let that circulate and then put it back.....or should i just do the 2 gallons......
also, i dont have an extra heater.....is that okay? i can keep it in my room...hopefully it wont be too much colder.........
 

frozenguy

Member
what kind of water is just like ro water.......cause if this is an emergency, i will be willing to go out the super market and buy some water........
is it distilled water???
what kind of water could i use??/
thanks......
 

frozenguy

Member
all my fish look active.......
the eel is swimming around.....the angel is swimming around too, having fun with the arches and stuff........eating stuff off the rocks....the clowns are psycho.....the big one is playin the powerhead and the small one follows her around alot.......
is this a good sign?
 

stacyt

Active Member
You really want to let your water mix for a good 12 hrs. before doing a water change. preferably 24 hrs. If you only have 2 gallons of RO I would go ahead and start mixing with the 2 then add more as soon as possible. Don't use 3 gallons from your tank. You'll just be adding the nitrites, and ammonia, back into the tank. You should also pickup a small heater for mixing your water. It doesn't cost much to buy a small heater to heat 5 gallons of water. You want the mixed water as close as your tank temp as possible.
 
T

thomas712

Guest
Here is an Idea, one that has worked for me. Look in the phone book for places that sell water. I found one in my town that uses those 5 gallon bottles for those office water coolers. See if you can buy any of there used 5 gal water bottles. I picked 4 up for just $3.00 a piece, some department stores are carrying them now. If there is a meijer in your town chances are they have a RO machine by culligan and you can pick up water for just .29 cents a gallon if you fill your own, or your lfs will be able to sell you some water. This is just the cheapest way I have found without buying an RO unit.
StacyT is correct a 2nd heater will not cost you too much just shop around for a low watt heater, not to cheap as the cheaper they are the more brittle the glass is. Don't settle for less than a submersible one as you might find one day that you will need to replace the one in your main tank. Personally I do use a very cheap one that is mounted on a 10 gal tank just for my water changes that I let sit for 2 days before a water change. Its only a 10 gal tank, a powerhead, and cheap heater.
HTH
Thomas
 

gatorcsm

Member
Drinking water is RO/DI water. Just from large commercial systems. Usually says from so and so's municipal water supply. So if you buy zephyrhills drinking water, it will work. Spring water has more minerals and stuff but would still be chlorine free. Distilled water would be the same, but with even less...
Spring: Minerals
Drinking: RO/DI
Distilled: as pure as you can get; Not usually thought as healthy for normal consumption as it is void of most anything: bacteria/minerals/etc.=> can cause the runs in humans...
 

ophiura

Active Member
FYI, it is not because of the bacteria (we chlorinate our drinking water to destroy bacteria- we really don't want much bacteria in our water), it is because the water is very harsh to cells because it lacks ions, minerals, etc. It is very difficult for cells to regulate properly in distilled water. However, it is fine for use in salt tanks because you are adding in minerals, salts, etc with the salt mix.
Be wary of the big machines...many of them are poorly serviced, if at all, and you may be paying a lot for nothing more than slightly filtered tap water.
Pay close attention to the labels on the water you buy. It should say 'treated by reverse osmosis' on the label if it is RO water. Many are simply filtered.
 

gatorcsm

Member
The bacteria growth is inhibited in DI water, maybe I mispoke.
When replacing a float valve in our potable water tanks on my submarine, which we fill with distilled water from an evaporator (greater than 10,000 gallons per day capacity), we noticed the growth of plant life in the tanks, this according to the DOC inoculates the water with this bacteria, destroying/breaking down the non-ionic solution. We had wanted to clean it, but apparantly we aren't supposed to... We also, for similar reasons use a non-ionic soap when cleaning some of the related components. Very crisp/clean tasting water. Great for washing our clothes in too.. If it weren't for the smell of stale air.
I guess it all goes hand in hand however; no-ions, more difficult for sustained life, hard for minerals/gasses to be part of the mix.
I'll buy that.
 
S

sinner's girl

Guest
do you have a wal-mart near by? We get our water for .33 cents a gl. they have a water thing in the front of the store, you fill your own containers, it's not ro/di but it'll work.
though doing water changes will prevent the cycle from completing or it will cycle very slowly.
you have an eel, angel and clowns in a 25gl? The clowns are ok in that size but I don't think an eel or the angel are ok for 25gl.
 

frozenguy

Member
well.........i think my cycle did complete
i had an ammonia spike.......
then nitrite spike.....then my nitrates went up a bit then went down....i had an algae bloom as my nitrites were comming down......
isn't that a cycle? and the eel is only 4-5 inches long......the angel is real small too....the angel will be fine, i'm movign the eel to a 90 gallon once i get it....it iwll be okay...i know i cant keep him there too long......
no i dont have a wal mart....i get RO water all the time from my LFS, i just couldn't get there last night, even if they were open at 11pm.......
but anyways, my ammonia is between .25 and 0 and my nitrites are back down to .25
i think it is just balancing itself out again??
 

nightraven

Member
I know the water kiosk's at Kroger/Wal-Mart/Meijer... are RO water but they are not RO/DI water. What is the difference between those. Also could the tanks be contaminated by the copper piping inside those machines?
 

ophiura

Active Member
frozenguy,
It is kind of irrelevant whether the tank cycled now or not. Obviously, it was not cycled with this bioload, because, in a properly cycled tank, the ammonia doesn't start to rise almost as soon as the fish are in there.
But in addition to the questionable cycle, you have WAY too many fish in that tank for a newly cycled tank (actually for a 25 g in general). If I am not mistaken, you have 7 fish in there...the eel, the 2 clowns, the angel, the dottyback, the blenny thing for your friend...and something else I think. WAAAAYYYY too much, even in a properly cycled, very mature tank. You should not, IMO, have more than 4 small fish in that tank when finished, and the eel and angel should be the first to go. That is almost another problem entirely.
How did you cycle the tank, with LR alone, or with shrimp, etc? LR alone, IMO, is less desirable, because if you get partly cured LR, the die off won't be much...and the LR can handle it quickly. You see an abbreviated, low grade spike and cycle. This often is misleading, and people do exactly what you did...go put a bunch of fish in and then the tank really cycles. The test comes when a serious ammonia burden is placed on the tank (which is why I always recommend people push the tank with raw shrimp or something). Now, had you started with 2 fish- the 2 clowns, I don't think you would be in this situation. Patience is the golden rule. And lack of it is often fatal, especially in small tanks that are easily overburdened.
Now, if you had a decent LFS, this would have been much easier. But you don't. That is very clear.
You will have an uphill battle now. A very steep hill too. If they are good, as you say they are, they will take the fish back, or at least hold them for you while the tank stabilizes.
IMO, the only real solution now is to take some fish back, because if you start causing the pH to fluctuate by doing rapid water changes, which you may end up doing, that ammonia becomes even more toxic, not to mention the stress of water changes on new animals, in poor water, in a small crowded tank.
Please consider taking some back. Seriously cut back on the feeding, get some more LR or Cycle, do water changes...but the best bet is reducing that bioload.
 

frozenguy

Member
well....
if my levels rise i will take the eel and the angel back for them to hold...i cycled the tank with 34 pounds of live rock and a filter....
for 17 days....
and with out my friends fish (2 of them)
i have 2 clowns and a small eel and a flame angel....
i will take the eel and angel back tomorrow if the levels rise...if they stay at what they are, is it safe to say they will be okay? i mean, should i hold off on bringing them back unless the levels go up? i mean i would think that would more stressful, bringing them back and forth.....sorry but dont get mad at me...i thought i was patient...but when someone tells you that you've cycled and i dont know better...what am i going to do? they were having a 40% off fish super bowl sale....although i do wish now that i didn't buy the eel and angel...i wish i just had the clowns......
for good news, they are pairing up really well......they like each other.....
 
Top