ifirefight
Active Member
"I dont have the room or money for a QT". How many times have you heard this one??
Please dont start this hobby without the proper equipment.
No QT
- Thread starter ifirefight
- Start date
reefkprz
Active Member
LOL you hear too many people telling inexpirienced people "I never qted and havent had problems" but those are the same people asking how to eliminate aiptasia from their DT or what to do about flat worms, or how did my fish get ich, and other infestations that could have been avoided by proper Qting.
you can afford to Qt, when you count the dollar value of live stock versus the set up cost for a QT how could you NOT afford to.
you can afford to Qt, when you count the dollar value of live stock versus the set up cost for a QT how could you NOT afford to.
K
kikithemermaid
Guest
I don't have a qt. I didn't find out about this forum until after we started our SW tank, and the LFS people said many people don't use it. I didn't know, and we do not have room nor money. I of course wish I had one, though.
anonome
Active Member
I agree. When I first started in this hobby I must confess that I too never quarantined my fish.....nor did I know of this site.....and all of those first fish are long gone. Many dollars thrown out the window, and unfortunately for the fish that were taken from their happy home in the ocean to be unknowingly killed by my mistake.
Please, if you really care about this hobby, enough to shell out some major cash on your tank, stand, lights, rock, the list can go on and on.....Quarantine your fish. It is not only to ward off disease, it is a means to make sure they are eating and adjusted to captivity before putting in your tank. These fish go through some major stresses from the ocean to our tanks...it is the least we can do.
Please, if you really care about this hobby, enough to shell out some major cash on your tank, stand, lights, rock, the list can go on and on.....Quarantine your fish. It is not only to ward off disease, it is a means to make sure they are eating and adjusted to captivity before putting in your tank. These fish go through some major stresses from the ocean to our tanks...it is the least we can do.
sepulatian
Moderator
Quarantine your fish. It is not only to ward off disease, it is a means to make sure they are eating and adjusted to captivity before putting in your tank. These fish go through some major stresses from the ocean to our tanks...it is the least we can do.
So many people forget about the added benefits of quarantine besides preventing disease.
So many people forget about the added benefits of quarantine besides preventing disease.
crimzy
Active Member
Blah blah blah blah QT QT QT... you people sound like broken records.
I love the logic here. When people take your advice and their fish die in QT, you declare the greatness of QT because the fish obviously would have died anyway in an appropriately sized, appropriately filtered, appropriately maintained display.
To those who QT, please indicate the size of your QT and how many of your fish never made it out of your QT... just curious.
I love the logic here. When people take your advice and their fish die in QT, you declare the greatness of QT because the fish obviously would have died anyway in an appropriately sized, appropriately filtered, appropriately maintained display.
To those who QT, please indicate the size of your QT and how many of your fish never made it out of your QT... just curious.
michaeltx
Moderator
my QT was a walmart 10 gallon 10$ tank that I used for a very long time for QT. during that time I lost one fish to ich and save the probably 20 fish in my tank. when I first started without a QT I lost many many many fish to ich and other diseases that I didnt know till I found beths threads of what they actually were. so IMO and many other QT is a very good way to protect you investment.
Mike
Mike
crimzy
Active Member
Originally Posted by MichaelTX
http:///forum/post/2608703
my QT was a walmart 10 gallon 10$ tank that I used for a very long time for QT. during that time I lost one fish to ich and save the probably 20 fish in my tank. when I first started without a QT I lost many many many fish to ich and other diseases that I didnt know till I found beths threads of what they actually were. so IMO and many other QT is a very good way to protect you investment.
Mike
I gotta be honest here, if you lost many, many, many fish to ich prior to using QT then you had bigger problems in your tank than ich. And I don't know what fish you have so it's difficult to discuss whether a 10 gallon is appropriate.
However, IMHO the vast majority of QT's are inadequately sized, inadequately maintained and inadequately filtered. This theory could easily be proven by simply taking a sample of hobbiests on this site, however the worse the QT, the less likely the person is to admit it in a thread. While there are definitely benefits to QT, in most cases, the detriments outweigh the benefits. This forum is filled with threads exemplifying the failures of QT, however these failures are generally interpreted creatively as successes, (ie. thank goodness that fish died in QT so it couldn't infect all your other fish).
QT is actually a very stressful environment, not a haven. They are generally small with poor biological filtration and poorly maintained. Furthermore the additional capture and transition of fish, especially weakened fish, creates serious health concerns.
There are different ways to maintain an aquarium successfully. QT is not always the best/only option.
http:///forum/post/2608703
my QT was a walmart 10 gallon 10$ tank that I used for a very long time for QT. during that time I lost one fish to ich and save the probably 20 fish in my tank. when I first started without a QT I lost many many many fish to ich and other diseases that I didnt know till I found beths threads of what they actually were. so IMO and many other QT is a very good way to protect you investment.
Mike
I gotta be honest here, if you lost many, many, many fish to ich prior to using QT then you had bigger problems in your tank than ich. And I don't know what fish you have so it's difficult to discuss whether a 10 gallon is appropriate.
However, IMHO the vast majority of QT's are inadequately sized, inadequately maintained and inadequately filtered. This theory could easily be proven by simply taking a sample of hobbiests on this site, however the worse the QT, the less likely the person is to admit it in a thread. While there are definitely benefits to QT, in most cases, the detriments outweigh the benefits. This forum is filled with threads exemplifying the failures of QT, however these failures are generally interpreted creatively as successes, (ie. thank goodness that fish died in QT so it couldn't infect all your other fish).
QT is actually a very stressful environment, not a haven. They are generally small with poor biological filtration and poorly maintained. Furthermore the additional capture and transition of fish, especially weakened fish, creates serious health concerns.
There are different ways to maintain an aquarium successfully. QT is not always the best/only option.
crimzy
Active Member
And just so you know... when you've been doing this long enough, you see trends come and go. I've seen the cycling with damsels, undergravel filters, sand filters, uv sterilizers, wet dry filters, crushed coral, QTs, cannister filters, etc. Things come and go in this hobby. The idea that you QT is the only way to go, or as the OP stated "If you don't have the proper equipment then get out of the hobby" is really just another trend.
michaeltx
Moderator
when I first started I went by the advise of a very bad LFS that wasnt a good thing. it was horrible to say the least.
I do know what you are saying that there are a lot of things that come and go but to be honest ever since I found the online boards back in 97 or so I had never heard of useing one. Since then the use of sand-rock-skimmer-good flow- and a QT has been the main things recomended ever where I looked. so I started useing one and let the main tank sit for about 6 weeks fishless and never had another problem probably because of many factors
from learning what to look for in a sick fish.
Better stores to shop in
better preventive teatments and conditions
to even the QT.
I have had a SW tank for a very long time though got my first FW tank when I was 10-12 and my first SW tank when I was 21 and I am 32 now and am much more aware of what it takes from the bad days LOL
Mike
I do know what you are saying that there are a lot of things that come and go but to be honest ever since I found the online boards back in 97 or so I had never heard of useing one. Since then the use of sand-rock-skimmer-good flow- and a QT has been the main things recomended ever where I looked. so I started useing one and let the main tank sit for about 6 weeks fishless and never had another problem probably because of many factors
from learning what to look for in a sick fish.
Better stores to shop in
better preventive teatments and conditions
to even the QT.
I have had a SW tank for a very long time though got my first FW tank when I was 10-12 and my first SW tank when I was 21 and I am 32 now and am much more aware of what it takes from the bad days LOL
Mike
michaeltx
Moderator
O yeah another reason I only used a 10 gallon tank was that I only bought one fish at a time and always went for the mid size of what was available and never really got anything that was to large to be housed for atleast a few months in the 10 gallon so that was the perfect size for my application.
Mike
Mike
aquaknight
Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2608670
To those who QT, please indicate the size of your QT and how many of your fish never made it out of your QT... just curious.
55gal (my workhouse), 25gal, 20gal(parents), 12gal, 10gal (briefly setup for live food).
Fish that never made it out of QT, Potters Angel, Blue Spotted Angel, Racoon Butterfly, Monocle Bream, Emporer Angel (that one hurt). If you want to count my most recent loss, my Tusk that only spend 1 1/2 weeks out of QT in the DT. I suspect Cyanide poisoning. Which wouldn't have shown up in the standard 4 week timeframe.
http:///forum/post/2608670
To those who QT, please indicate the size of your QT and how many of your fish never made it out of your QT... just curious.
55gal (my workhouse), 25gal, 20gal(parents), 12gal, 10gal (briefly setup for live food).
Fish that never made it out of QT, Potters Angel, Blue Spotted Angel, Racoon Butterfly, Monocle Bream, Emporer Angel (that one hurt). If you want to count my most recent loss, my Tusk that only spend 1 1/2 weeks out of QT in the DT. I suspect Cyanide poisoning. Which wouldn't have shown up in the standard 4 week timeframe.
aquaknight
Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2608749
And just so you know... when you've been doing this long enough, you see trends come and go. I've seen the cycling with damsels, undergravel filters, sand filters, uv sterilizers, wet dry filters, crushed coral, QTs, cannister filters, etc. Things come and go in this hobby. The idea that you QT is the only way to go, or as the OP stated "If you don't have the proper equipment then get out of the hobby" is really just another trend.
Apparently "rolling the dice" is the trend that stands the test of time...
http:///forum/post/2608749
And just so you know... when you've been doing this long enough, you see trends come and go. I've seen the cycling with damsels, undergravel filters, sand filters, uv sterilizers, wet dry filters, crushed coral, QTs, cannister filters, etc. Things come and go in this hobby. The idea that you QT is the only way to go, or as the OP stated "If you don't have the proper equipment then get out of the hobby" is really just another trend.
Apparently "rolling the dice" is the trend that stands the test of time...
crimzy
Active Member
I appreciate the honesty of the posters above. Of those losses in QT, I believe that many of them stood a better chance in a full size, well filtered display.
QT seems to be specifically designed to prevent only parasites (ich) from entering the display. The time in QT corresponds to the life cycle of ich but will do little to prevent fungus, bacterial infections, HLLE, popeye, etc. Of course preventing parasites from being introduced into the display is a benefit, there is also a cost/stress imposed upon the fish. Also, I don't consider ich to be the plague like so many here.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions on this issue and this is one of those things where I don't believe that there is only one way to be successful. However I believe that less than 50% of hobbiests are probably using QT and many of the non-QTers have very successful displays. In contrast, I believe that the vast majority of people who use QT suffer losses of fish in QT.
IMO it's much more important to place a priority on observing the fish prior to purchasing for signs of stress/disease and I'd start a thread in this section about not buying fish online, however out of respect to SWF I will not do so.
In short, as the OP advised, the idea that you should not get into this hobby without a QT is nonsense. It's a bit condescending and pretty rude IMO.
QT seems to be specifically designed to prevent only parasites (ich) from entering the display. The time in QT corresponds to the life cycle of ich but will do little to prevent fungus, bacterial infections, HLLE, popeye, etc. Of course preventing parasites from being introduced into the display is a benefit, there is also a cost/stress imposed upon the fish. Also, I don't consider ich to be the plague like so many here.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions on this issue and this is one of those things where I don't believe that there is only one way to be successful. However I believe that less than 50% of hobbiests are probably using QT and many of the non-QTers have very successful displays. In contrast, I believe that the vast majority of people who use QT suffer losses of fish in QT.
IMO it's much more important to place a priority on observing the fish prior to purchasing for signs of stress/disease and I'd start a thread in this section about not buying fish online, however out of respect to SWF I will not do so.
In short, as the OP advised, the idea that you should not get into this hobby without a QT is nonsense. It's a bit condescending and pretty rude IMO.
ifirefight
Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2609034
Everyone is entitled to their opinions on this issue and this is one of those things where I don't believe that there is only one way to be successful.
In short, as the OP advised, the idea that you should not get into this hobby without a QT is nonsense. It's a bit condescending and pretty rude IMO.
We will have to agree to disagree,I in no way was trying to be rude or condescending, I suppose I could have stated the original post better. However,I believe in QT, I am also fortunate to have the room and equipment to properly maintain a 45 gallon QT tank. I understand not all people have that luxury. As far as losing fish..sure I have lost fish in the QT and in the DT. I had 8 chromis in the QT,lost 4 0r 5 of those..then moved to the DT and lost 2 after a few weeks I was down to 1. I also lost a parrot fish in my QT...BUT I lost the fish to to them being unhealthy/stressed ,not from the quality of my DT. Lets be honest here..fish die for MANY reasons...Its amazing that they dont all die...they are taken from their homes,thrown in a bag,shipped,re-shipped,finally end up in some LFS,then make it to our house. Sheesh,that would put me over the edge I think.
My point is,If you have the proper set-up for a QT,I believe it works to keep disease and sick fish out of the DT. But its no guarantee your fish will not die anyway. There are no guarantees in this hobby.
http:///forum/post/2609034
Everyone is entitled to their opinions on this issue and this is one of those things where I don't believe that there is only one way to be successful.
In short, as the OP advised, the idea that you should not get into this hobby without a QT is nonsense. It's a bit condescending and pretty rude IMO.
We will have to agree to disagree,I in no way was trying to be rude or condescending, I suppose I could have stated the original post better. However,I believe in QT, I am also fortunate to have the room and equipment to properly maintain a 45 gallon QT tank. I understand not all people have that luxury. As far as losing fish..sure I have lost fish in the QT and in the DT. I had 8 chromis in the QT,lost 4 0r 5 of those..then moved to the DT and lost 2 after a few weeks I was down to 1. I also lost a parrot fish in my QT...BUT I lost the fish to to them being unhealthy/stressed ,not from the quality of my DT. Lets be honest here..fish die for MANY reasons...Its amazing that they dont all die...they are taken from their homes,thrown in a bag,shipped,re-shipped,finally end up in some LFS,then make it to our house. Sheesh,that would put me over the edge I think.
stdreb27
Active Member
That is why you set up the QT correctly, my qt was a 45 gallon tank that was setup with hob whisper filters a power head and skimmer, I left lr in there unless I saw signs of parasites then I'd hypo. And there were tons of pods. It was a good setup. All these pro-qt people are assuming that you have a properly setup qt.
aquaknight
Active Member
My only actual lost to parasites was the Racoon Bufferfly. He 'blew up' one day one with what seemed like Brooklynella and just couldn't treat fast enough.
The rest were somewhat more 'fragile' fish. Sure, if you keep a damsel, a clown, a lawnmover blenny and a sand goby, QT will probably not do anything (though I'd still recommend it). But hard to keep/expert fish will only make it in a peaceful QT setting IMO. They will died trying to learn to run before they can walk, in an already stocked tank with other fish.
As far as blaming the practice of QT for people who use 10gals to QT 6" Emporer Angels, that like blaming guns for people who kill. I would only say to QT responsibly. You can only 'suggest' so much......
The rest were somewhat more 'fragile' fish. Sure, if you keep a damsel, a clown, a lawnmover blenny and a sand goby, QT will probably not do anything (though I'd still recommend it). But hard to keep/expert fish will only make it in a peaceful QT setting IMO. They will died trying to learn to run before they can walk, in an already stocked tank with other fish.
As far as blaming the practice of QT for people who use 10gals to QT 6" Emporer Angels, that like blaming guns for people who kill. I would only say to QT responsibly. You can only 'suggest' so much......
reefkprz
Active Member
on a side note to the Qting not really about the good or bad thing. the local aquaculture program up here for breeding various fishes, has an extremly strict Qt procedure before the fish go into the tanks with.... themselves. obviously the breeding fish are not exposed to other fish as this could disturb the harmony of the breeding. some of my QT procedures I stole directly from them like the no lighting. the tanks are darkened on three sides both big sides and one small side. so only ambient light comes into the tank from the top and one end. they use 40G breeders for all their fishes QT. this creates a lower stress environment. proper cover is provided for the fish to seek refuge in. (appropriatly sized PVC pipes, terra cotta pots etc) filtration is provided with biological sponge filters. they have a strict water change schedual, and varied diet. they also do a bunch of prophylactic treatments that I dont but some of the steps made my QTing sucess go way up.