ok just found out he has drained the tank is the rock dead
- Thread starter scheri11
- Start date
florida joe
Well-Known Member
T if the rock is dead then it will not start a cycle
bulldog123
Member
May it be a good idea to bleach it first or would a month be enough to kill everything?
scopus tang
Active Member
Use it as base rock, add a few pieces of good live rock to get it started. If its been stored in a sealed bucket or container, it still may be nice and stinky and be able to get your cycle going. On the other hand if its all dried out, probably not - although it may still contain some desicated fleshy remains which will rot.
pezenfuego
Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3225260
T if the rock is dead then it will not start a cycle
The necessary bacteria is ubiquitous. Anything with dissolved organic waste will start a cycle.
http:///forum/post/3225260
T if the rock is dead then it will not start a cycle
The necessary bacteria is ubiquitous. Anything with dissolved organic waste will start a cycle.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by PEZenfuego
http:///forum/post/3225274
The necessary bacteria is ubiquitous. Anything with dissolved organic waste will start a cycle.
if its dead there is no waste dead is dead devoid of life. any type of life.
http:///forum/post/3225274
The necessary bacteria is ubiquitous. Anything with dissolved organic waste will start a cycle.
if its dead there is no waste dead is dead devoid of life. any type of life.
chaseter
Member
Bacteria can sporulate when conditions are bad and then germinate when conditions are good. I am not a marine biologist but I would bet that there is some dormant bacteria on those rocks if they were just allowed to dry and not bleached or cleaned. I would say that a dried rock after a month would start a cycle on its own if some food were added, ie a piece of shrimp.
scopus tang
Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3225298
if its dead there is no waste dead is dead devoid of life. any type of life.
Correct, dead is dead and therefore can not produce waste, however there may still be organic debris which can decompose.
http:///forum/post/3225298
if its dead there is no waste dead is dead devoid of life. any type of life.
Correct, dead is dead and therefore can not produce waste, however there may still be organic debris which can decompose.
pezenfuego
Active Member
Originally Posted by chaseter
http:///forum/post/3225304
Bacteria can sporulate when conditions are bad and then germinate when conditions are good. I am not a marine biologist but I would bet that there is some dormant bacteria on those rocks if they were just allowed to dry and not bleached or cleaned. I would say that a dried rock after a month would start a cycle on its own if some food were added, ie a piece of shrimp.
This bacteria is ubiquitous. I don't give a crap if the rock is completely sterile, a cycle will start.
The bacteria will find its way in. So long as there is a food source, it will flourish.
http:///forum/post/3225304
Bacteria can sporulate when conditions are bad and then germinate when conditions are good. I am not a marine biologist but I would bet that there is some dormant bacteria on those rocks if they were just allowed to dry and not bleached or cleaned. I would say that a dried rock after a month would start a cycle on its own if some food were added, ie a piece of shrimp.
This bacteria is ubiquitous. I don't give a crap if the rock is completely sterile, a cycle will start.
The bacteria will find its way in. So long as there is a food source, it will flourish.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
This bacteria is ubiquitous. I don't give a crap if the rock is completely sterile, a cycle will start
sterile or
• Asepsis, a state of being free from biological contaminants
free from living organisms and especially microorganisms or dead you can not have bacteria form in our aquariums with out a degrading of something with some sort of life to it i don't give a crap. if you have a sterile environment bacteria will NOT find a way in
sterile or
• Asepsis, a state of being free from biological contaminants
free from living organisms and especially microorganisms or dead you can not have bacteria form in our aquariums with out a degrading of something with some sort of life to it i don't give a crap. if you have a sterile environment bacteria will NOT find a way in
pezenfuego
Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3225338
sterile or
• Asepsis, a state of being free from biological contaminants
free from living organisms and especially microorganisms or dead you can not have bacteria form in our aquariums with out a degrading of something with some sort of life to it i don't give a crap. if you have a sterile environment bacteria will NOT find a way in
If the rock started with no bacteria on it (ie sterile), it could still obtain the necessary bacteria from the outside environment (again, it's ubiquitous) and flourish.
The NH3- ions that are necessary for the bacteria to thrive are given off by the dead or decaying organisms on the rock.
This statement: "you can not have bacteria form in our aquariums with out a degrading of something with some sort of life to it" is completely false. NH3- is a chemical. It is not living and has never been living. Add that to your aquarium and you'll get a cycle.
http:///forum/post/3225338
sterile or
• Asepsis, a state of being free from biological contaminants
free from living organisms and especially microorganisms or dead you can not have bacteria form in our aquariums with out a degrading of something with some sort of life to it i don't give a crap. if you have a sterile environment bacteria will NOT find a way in
If the rock started with no bacteria on it (ie sterile), it could still obtain the necessary bacteria from the outside environment (again, it's ubiquitous) and flourish.
The NH3- ions that are necessary for the bacteria to thrive are given off by the dead or decaying organisms on the rock.
This statement: "you can not have bacteria form in our aquariums with out a degrading of something with some sort of life to it" is completely false. NH3- is a chemical. It is not living and has never been living. Add that to your aquarium and you'll get a cycle.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
wow this is truly amassing so you are telling me if i add a sterile rock to a sterile tank the rock will feed bacteria which is not present do to the sterile environment but some how IS there an i will start a nitrogen cycle. and please understand the difference between ubiquitous and sterile before you wear the word out
scopus tang
Active Member
Originally Posted by PEZenfuego
http:///forum/post/3225345
The NH3- ions that are necessary for the bacteria to thrive are given off by the dead or decaying organisms on the rock.
This statement: "you can not have bacteria form in our aquariums with out a degrading of something with some sort of life to it" is completely false. NH3- is a chemical. It is not living and has never been living. Add that to your aquarium and you'll get a cycle.
I think the two of you are arguing apples and oranges - Joe you're arguing that bacteria cannot occur in a sterile tank without a organic source of decay. Pez you're arguing that bacteria will appear in a sterile tank, but admit that there has to be an organic food source. JMO
http:///forum/post/3225345
The NH3- ions that are necessary for the bacteria to thrive are given off by the dead or decaying organisms on the rock.
This statement: "you can not have bacteria form in our aquariums with out a degrading of something with some sort of life to it" is completely false. NH3- is a chemical. It is not living and has never been living. Add that to your aquarium and you'll get a cycle.
I think the two of you are arguing apples and oranges - Joe you're arguing that bacteria cannot occur in a sterile tank without a organic source of decay. Pez you're arguing that bacteria will appear in a sterile tank, but admit that there has to be an organic food source. JMO
pezenfuego
Active Member
My definition of sterile was simply "without life." Just because there is no life doesn't mean that life cannot inhabit the area...by my definition.
Also, I said nothing of a sterile environment. That changes everything.
The bacteria necessary for a cycle to occur is in this room right now and mind you I am not in a room with an aquarium.
Lets throw out the hypothetical sterile rock. That is a problem in this discussion. Let's just look at base rock.
I could buy base rock (it has never been in the ocean, in an aquarium, or any aquatic environment) and add an ammonia source and the end result would be a cycled tank. Bear in mind that the cycle would take much longer to establish itself~1-1.5 months.
That's all I'm trying to say. Unless you believe that the bacteria is not ubiquitous, you have no reason to argue with me.
Also, I said nothing of a sterile environment. That changes everything.
The bacteria necessary for a cycle to occur is in this room right now and mind you I am not in a room with an aquarium.
Lets throw out the hypothetical sterile rock. That is a problem in this discussion. Let's just look at base rock.
I could buy base rock (it has never been in the ocean, in an aquarium, or any aquatic environment) and add an ammonia source and the end result would be a cycled tank. Bear in mind that the cycle would take much longer to establish itself~1-1.5 months.
That's all I'm trying to say. Unless you believe that the bacteria is not ubiquitous, you have no reason to argue with me.
pezenfuego
Active Member
Originally Posted by chaseter
http:///forum/post/3225370
If a sterile rock is placed in a sterile tank in a sterile environment, and a sterilized food source is placed in the tank...there will be NO bacteria propagation.
I agree. However these were not the standards I placed. I made no mention of a sterile environment. I made mention of an environment in which the necessary bacteria is ubiquitous. This bacteria will culture on the once-sterile rock.
http:///forum/post/3225370
If a sterile rock is placed in a sterile tank in a sterile environment, and a sterilized food source is placed in the tank...there will be NO bacteria propagation.
I agree. However these were not the standards I placed. I made no mention of a sterile environment. I made mention of an environment in which the necessary bacteria is ubiquitous. This bacteria will culture on the once-sterile rock.
scopus tang
Active Member
Ok, just to play devil's advocate - can any of you tell me how an aquarium can possibly be sterile and can exist in a sterile environment? Bacterial spores are carried in the air, so unless you somehow completely sterilize everything going into the tank and can sterilize the air around you tank, its not going to be sterile. Kind of makes the whole "sterile" argument pointless doesn't it?