tangs rule
Active Member
This thread is to INFORM and not scare but please be advised:
My experience:
I have these (Palythoa sp. {large button polyps}) for many years - and 2 weeks ago I moved them, bare hand in a main tank(dropped them) and when I picked the frag back up, I touched one of the polyps a bit and got that mucus stuff on my index finger - right hand......only thing i moved that morning and didn't wash hands really well. Only rinsed fingers in the sink for a second - and went on about my day....A bit later I stepped outside for smoke - using the same fingers for a cig....within seconds - my lips were tingly. Licking them with my tounge made my tounge tingle, and seconds later the front 1/2 of my mouth was numb. Within 3 minutes I was vomiting badly and having very rapid pulse rate, and fast but short respiration...Was an hour before the serious symptoms cleared up - most of a day before my lips/mouth were no longer numb. But I had an awful metallic taste for about a week. (should have called 911, but didn't - I didn't know about this stuff or why I was so suddenly sick - I blamed it on food poisoning)
I'm not 100% sure if it was exposure to palytoxin, but I'm not doing that again. I DO strongly believe it was exposure to very tiny/minute ammounts injested. I've now researched several similar results from reefers who were likely exposed as well, and reported very similar symptoms.. I've also researched this on the web and my exposure to this powerful toxin is consistant with known symptoms......
I usually use gloves or mechanical grabbers in my mains- but the lights had just come on, and this frag had gotten knocked over in the night, and I was only gonna flip it upright, so what's a quick arm dip in the tank gonna do? ? ? right?
Palytoxin is one of the most toxic, COMPLEX, and least understood substances found in nature or made by man. Many times more toxic than venom from "blue ringed octopus", or any venomus fish, cone snails, snakes, or most jellyfish. The toxin delivered by the the Box Jellyfish ( Chironex fleckeri, Carukia barnesi) and the miniture box jelly - irukandji (Carukia barnesihttp:///wiki/Carukia_barnesi , or Malo kingi) may be similar in strength - but the ammounts of any of these natural toxins required to KILL are miniscule!! And there is no antivenin. . . . The only manmade toxins of similar strength come out of chemical warefare labs and radioactive isotopes (Polonium 210, others) .
Published research shows that single digit MICROGRAMS ( 1 millionth/gram) or NANOGRAMS (1 billionth/gram) of Palytoxin may be fatal to humans - and the ammount found in the mucus of a single polyp of Palythoa or Protopalytha could, if delivered into the bloodstream kill many 100's of people. Some reports of people experiencing similar or worse conditions as I've experienced came from handeling/fragging some zoa type corals - but appearantly most zoas carry none or little of the toxin in their mucus. It appears to be most prevalant in the Palythoa & Protopalythoa sp. mucus/slime. (more research needed)
It may also be possible to inhale this toxin while handling Palythoa or Protopalytha or some zoanthids, as several have reported very similar symptoms on multiple reef forums elsewhere on the web. again more research needed but several reefers note various symptoms of palytoxin exposure while fraging/handling these types...EVEN WHILE PROTECTED BY GLOVES AND GOGGELS. . .
Most imporntant would be advice for aquarists handling/receiving/fraging/removing these type of polyps you may encounter....
Most seem to indicate/report similar symtoms I had - like numbness/tingeling anywhere on the body, problems breathing, increased heartbeat, metallic taste, vision problems, headaches, light-headedness, skin irritations, rashes, severe infalmation of exposed wounds, burning sensations anywhere on your body, severe infection/irritation of previuos wounds, or dizzyness, and vomiting are all common symptoms of minute exposure to palytoxin.......
Slightly more exposure to this toxin results in chest pains, paralysis, blood pressure instability, severe breathing issues, and death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palytoxin)
I own 2 groups of Protopalythoa, and this is the one I touched that morning for seconds! :
3/4" dia. green polyps
On other fourms/sites - many disregard other posters claims to becomming intensely sickened/needing hospitalization from handling Palythoa, Protopalytha, and some zoas polyps - and MOST swear that no zoa in their Main tank ever caused them issues....and very likely not many types of coral produce/carry the toxin...and they're likely somewhat correct...I made it almost 10 years before having a reaction to a known carrier of the stuff before I had somthing incredible happen to me. Many post replies on other sites disregard claims of palytoxin posioning immediatly, cause what they own never gave them issues, and they "defend" their love for the hobby & infatuation with zoas by discrediting claims of problems from others who have different types/species....
Be aware - take very good precautions when handling all corals (gloves/grabbers) and if fragging or handling these types (Palythoa, Protopalytha) - handle with extreme caution, and assume everything that comes into contact with this species is tainted and toxic: (cutters/foreceps/gloves/tweezers/water/bucket or dish/ and wear goggles!) they can squirt and many have reported getting this stuff in their eyes while fragging! Which causes severe eye reactions/temporary blindness & severe eye infections that may last weeks.
It may also be possible to absorb the toxin through your skin, if not wearing gloves and handling/fraging these types directly. Again, more research is needed!! There are SO many varients of ALL corals that it will likely be several hundred years before most are discoverd/studied/named/categorized & researched....... New types & indivuiduals are discovered or named almost daily!
I've been "wet" with salt water reef tanks since summer of 2001. I've had these corals since 2003 or '04....I've emptied protien skimmer cups/changed carbon filters/been shoulder deep in my tanks weekly for YEARS and hundreds of times! Never did I have a SERIOUS and FAST reaction as I did 2 weeks ago.....
Be careful & research more on your own - but there is a danger with some corals that look ever so pretty under good light. Handle with extreme care - know what the symptoms of exposure are and be prepared if problems arise........knowing is saving.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palytoxin
http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/Palytoxin.html
http://www.pnas.org/content/100/2/386.full
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~bemorton/Neuroscience/Neurochemistry/Palytoxin.html
http://www.mdpi.com/1660-3397/8/7/2021/
My experience:
I have these (Palythoa sp. {large button polyps}) for many years - and 2 weeks ago I moved them, bare hand in a main tank(dropped them) and when I picked the frag back up, I touched one of the polyps a bit and got that mucus stuff on my index finger - right hand......only thing i moved that morning and didn't wash hands really well. Only rinsed fingers in the sink for a second - and went on about my day....A bit later I stepped outside for smoke - using the same fingers for a cig....within seconds - my lips were tingly. Licking them with my tounge made my tounge tingle, and seconds later the front 1/2 of my mouth was numb. Within 3 minutes I was vomiting badly and having very rapid pulse rate, and fast but short respiration...Was an hour before the serious symptoms cleared up - most of a day before my lips/mouth were no longer numb. But I had an awful metallic taste for about a week. (should have called 911, but didn't - I didn't know about this stuff or why I was so suddenly sick - I blamed it on food poisoning)
I'm not 100% sure if it was exposure to palytoxin, but I'm not doing that again. I DO strongly believe it was exposure to very tiny/minute ammounts injested. I've now researched several similar results from reefers who were likely exposed as well, and reported very similar symptoms.. I've also researched this on the web and my exposure to this powerful toxin is consistant with known symptoms......
I usually use gloves or mechanical grabbers in my mains- but the lights had just come on, and this frag had gotten knocked over in the night, and I was only gonna flip it upright, so what's a quick arm dip in the tank gonna do? ? ? right?
Palytoxin is one of the most toxic, COMPLEX, and least understood substances found in nature or made by man. Many times more toxic than venom from "blue ringed octopus", or any venomus fish, cone snails, snakes, or most jellyfish. The toxin delivered by the the Box Jellyfish ( Chironex fleckeri, Carukia barnesi) and the miniture box jelly - irukandji (Carukia barnesihttp:///wiki/Carukia_barnesi , or Malo kingi) may be similar in strength - but the ammounts of any of these natural toxins required to KILL are miniscule!! And there is no antivenin. . . . The only manmade toxins of similar strength come out of chemical warefare labs and radioactive isotopes (Polonium 210, others) .
Published research shows that single digit MICROGRAMS ( 1 millionth/gram) or NANOGRAMS (1 billionth/gram) of Palytoxin may be fatal to humans - and the ammount found in the mucus of a single polyp of Palythoa or Protopalytha could, if delivered into the bloodstream kill many 100's of people. Some reports of people experiencing similar or worse conditions as I've experienced came from handeling/fragging some zoa type corals - but appearantly most zoas carry none or little of the toxin in their mucus. It appears to be most prevalant in the Palythoa & Protopalythoa sp. mucus/slime. (more research needed)
It may also be possible to inhale this toxin while handling Palythoa or Protopalytha or some zoanthids, as several have reported very similar symptoms on multiple reef forums elsewhere on the web. again more research needed but several reefers note various symptoms of palytoxin exposure while fraging/handling these types...EVEN WHILE PROTECTED BY GLOVES AND GOGGELS. . .
Most imporntant would be advice for aquarists handling/receiving/fraging/removing these type of polyps you may encounter....
Most seem to indicate/report similar symtoms I had - like numbness/tingeling anywhere on the body, problems breathing, increased heartbeat, metallic taste, vision problems, headaches, light-headedness, skin irritations, rashes, severe infalmation of exposed wounds, burning sensations anywhere on your body, severe infection/irritation of previuos wounds, or dizzyness, and vomiting are all common symptoms of minute exposure to palytoxin.......
Slightly more exposure to this toxin results in chest pains, paralysis, blood pressure instability, severe breathing issues, and death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palytoxin)
I own 2 groups of Protopalythoa, and this is the one I touched that morning for seconds! :
3/4" dia. green polyps
On other fourms/sites - many disregard other posters claims to becomming intensely sickened/needing hospitalization from handling Palythoa, Protopalytha, and some zoas polyps - and MOST swear that no zoa in their Main tank ever caused them issues....and very likely not many types of coral produce/carry the toxin...and they're likely somewhat correct...I made it almost 10 years before having a reaction to a known carrier of the stuff before I had somthing incredible happen to me. Many post replies on other sites disregard claims of palytoxin posioning immediatly, cause what they own never gave them issues, and they "defend" their love for the hobby & infatuation with zoas by discrediting claims of problems from others who have different types/species....
Be aware - take very good precautions when handling all corals (gloves/grabbers) and if fragging or handling these types (Palythoa, Protopalytha) - handle with extreme caution, and assume everything that comes into contact with this species is tainted and toxic: (cutters/foreceps/gloves/tweezers/water/bucket or dish/ and wear goggles!) they can squirt and many have reported getting this stuff in their eyes while fragging! Which causes severe eye reactions/temporary blindness & severe eye infections that may last weeks.
It may also be possible to absorb the toxin through your skin, if not wearing gloves and handling/fraging these types directly. Again, more research is needed!! There are SO many varients of ALL corals that it will likely be several hundred years before most are discoverd/studied/named/categorized & researched....... New types & indivuiduals are discovered or named almost daily!
I've been "wet" with salt water reef tanks since summer of 2001. I've had these corals since 2003 or '04....I've emptied protien skimmer cups/changed carbon filters/been shoulder deep in my tanks weekly for YEARS and hundreds of times! Never did I have a SERIOUS and FAST reaction as I did 2 weeks ago.....
Be careful & research more on your own - but there is a danger with some corals that look ever so pretty under good light. Handle with extreme care - know what the symptoms of exposure are and be prepared if problems arise........knowing is saving.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palytoxin
http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/Palytoxin.html
http://www.pnas.org/content/100/2/386.full
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~bemorton/Neuroscience/Neurochemistry/Palytoxin.html
http://www.mdpi.com/1660-3397/8/7/2021/
