Panther grouper problem

darth tang

darth tang

Active Member
I have had this guy for a little over a year...watched him grow to the ten or 11 inches he is now.
I have a 140.
He is housed with a neon velvet damsel, Green Bird wrasse, and a purple lobster. various snails as well.
45 lbs live rock.
2 hob filters
canister filter
protein skimmer
Ammonia-0
Nitrite-0
nitrate-0 to 5
PH 8.2
Salinity 1.025
The problem is the guy acts drunk and from what I see has stopped eating. He used to come beg for food and has stopped doing that for the last week. He now sits in the back behind the rock. He doesn't look skinnier so I assume he is eating when I am not at the tank. However...when he swims he can not right himself...spends half the time sideways or upside down. When not swimming he leans against rocks. He doesn't appear to be breathing hard, but he occassionally bumps into rocks. Not scratching, but like he can't see or something. No outward signs of disease or infection. No visual signs of stress (color change). I tried live feeders last night to see if he would be interested, but nothing.
Any ideas?
 
dme

dme

Member
DT, I do have a number of ideas to your problem, for first off your tank to small a tank in the first place and it sounds as well that a nutritional diet is an issue as well. For as your filtration within this over stocked tank is I believe to be an issue that you will need to face soon for I no idea of the skimmer you have, but a canister filter leaves little to be desired for things can work rather well with a canister filter, but one needs to maintain not so heavy a bio-load.
And as well, you not nearly enough LR for that tank and are you sure of your nitrate levels? For the only way you would manage to keep it down is by doing some serious water changes.
The reason I say it could be an issue on the groupers diet is, in the way you said that it seem to have said that it bumps into rocks.
when he swims he can not right himself...spends half the time sideways or upside down. When not swimming he leans against rocks
That tells me if something isn't seriously done and real soon like now, the grouper is dead :( For what you been feeding it? Feeders? For as well you need to get in its own tank and a larger tank then its in now! Also it may already be too late to bring it back around.
Do not trust your water test for with that canister and so, I believe you some serious thoughts to go over about your tank.
A Happy New Year All
 
dme

dme

Member
Sorry on the double posting, but I left one little item out that I forgotten to add, i believe the grouper is going blind
 
puffer24/7

puffer24/7

Active Member
"This is from Bob Fenner's web site and a guy ask a simular question.....seems like its not unusual...HTH"
"" This species does at time "just" lay down, and will (for no apparent reason) go into a non-feeding strike... If good-sized, the Panther Grouper can go w/o food for weeks. "" Bob Fenner.
this was posted by dogstar and mine happens to do the same things, mine even does flips in the tank and then lies down for a little bit then goes and puts on another show,lol
 
darth tang

darth tang

Active Member
That was rich. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Thanks for the good laugh, I needed it.
First off, a 7 foot long 17 inch tall 140 Gallon tank is not to small for those three fish. That is not my problem. Total fish inches is maybe 20-22.
Second of all, I do not feed the grouper feeders regularly. I tried them because he hasn't eaten for a week. Normally diet is squid, octopus, shrimp, krill, and silversides. all with vitamins added. This is only the second time since I have had this fish that feeders have been in the tank.
I am not new to this hobby. I know my water parameters. I have a LFS double check them as well weekly. My readings are correct. I regularly do water changes of ten gallons weekly. I know my tanks shortcomings and compensate for them.
The bird wrasse shares the same diet as the grouper for the most part with some pellet food thrown in occassionally. The bird wrasse has no issues and neither does the damsel.
I am looking for possible medications to treat what is going on.....not someone to tell me my tank is to small. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE AND NEITHER IS THE DIET!
If my water parameters were bad the two starfish I have in there would be having problems....which isn't happenning, as would my lobster.
 
puffer24/7

puffer24/7

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darth Tang
That was rich. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Thanks for the good laugh, I needed it.
First off, a 7 foot long 17 inch tall 140 Gallon tank is not to small for those three fish. That is not my problem. Total fish inches is maybe 20-22.
Second of all, I do not feed the grouper feeders regularly. I tried them because he hasn't eaten for a week. Normally diet is squid, octopus, shrimp, krill, and silversides. all with vitamins added. This is only the second time since I have had this fish that feeders have been in the tank.
I am not new to this hobby. I know my water parameters. I have a LFS double check them as well weekly. My readings are correct. I regularly do water changes of ten gallons weekly. I know my tanks shortcomings and compensate for them.
The bird wrasse shares the same diet as the grouper for the most part with some pellet food thrown in occassionally. The bird wrasse has no issues and neither does the damsel.
I am looking for possible medications to treat what is going on.....not someone to tell me my tank is to small. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE AND NEITHER IS THE DIET!
If my water parameters were bad the two starfish I have in there would be having problems....which isn't happenning, as would my lobster.
thats not a very good attitude to have if you want help, i have been down that road before, bewarned dont go down that road
 
dme

dme

Member
First thing is I know that the fish can go a good while without feeding and from much of what you said in your opening post statement is this:
However...when he swims he can not right himself...spends half the time sideways or upside down.
he occassionally bumps into rocks.
By you saying that tells me it seems that it is going blind as well as hangs out in just mostly one spot in behind the rocks. You can believe what you want, your an expert I gather from your "I am not new to this hobby" comment, but can you honestly say you know all the other answers for your tank is over loaded for the grouper hasn't even began to grow as yet for it is still quite a size to grow, so I like to wish you a Very Happy New year just the same and im sorry that I wasted my time here for people who or experts as yourself always sound off as you did for I was more in the interest to help you in any way I can, but I not need your childish way of thinking that you know your stuff, for no one said you not knew anything.
Also it isn't so unusual to when some fish starts to go blind that it will not have a lost of color as well as necessary weight problems for you are as well of fault to not give all the facts on the fish diet for you did mention feeding feeders.
I am looking for possible medications to treat what is going on.....not someone to tell me my tank is to small. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE AND NEITHER IS THE DIET!
First, I not type in caps, and I ask you not too! As well if this be that the grouper is going blind from what you said in your earlier post here, there is no medication that you can use other then to if its going blind then it should be in its own tank, you will be able to tell if this is the case for i can only say things to what you posted and not what is a maybe this or that, for I seen a good number of fish of other hobbyists that had gone blind and they lost no color as well as their weight for a good number of those fish were a large pufferfish and I not to long ago seen a tusk that has gone blind and none had a color lost that anyone had mentioned. As well. your water parameters can give you a false sense of security. So go right a head and believe what you want and please don`t sound off rude, OK, you are here for help and I am here to if I can give it.
And you not not want it, Just say so
For I not need the crap one gives after one tries to help and I still say you tank is too small a tank for this fish
So you go right a head and believe what you want for your the expert and I am just starting off you might say
 
darth tang

darth tang

Active Member
DME, First off let me apologize if I seemed rude. I did not mean to come accross that way. I grow tired of what seems to be the typical answers from many of tank to small or water parameters are wrong when propposed a problem. I assummed you were a newbie just spouting the standard lingo based off your post count. That is my fault.
I understand the limitations of my system as it currently sits. I have read tank limits for a panther as low as 60 gallons to Fenner's recomended 250. My grouper is not near full grown so my tank size is not an issue currently. There are plans in the making to move him to the shark pond I am building this next year in my house. So he will be moved to the larger required system then.
I assummed most know myself and I am meticulous about a lot of things, but I forget I am more known for my seahorses than anything else. I do not post in the forum here much, as I tend to just research through the search options. I can usually find what I am looking for that way and save everyone the trouble of repeating themselves. I am not concerned about my water quality as I said, I check them with 2 test kits and have them checked by the LFS also. Just to make sure.
If he is going blind, which is a possibilty, I can deal with that. But I wonder on this because when I have tried to feed him, he looks up and stares at the food as it drifts. My main concern is his apparent inability to control his motor functions. When trying to swim he is all over the place and that is my main concern. It is almost like when a Lionfish gets air in their stomach and can't right themselves and stay upside down. Only My guy needs to lean on things or he falls over.
Again I apologize for my seemed outburts earlier.
 
dme

dme

Member
Im glad to hear that you not take things to personal for do make a note that no one person has all the answers and as for fenner, i meet him and he not wanted to talk fish with me and specially since the main topic was to be on eels for I not believe he knows what people seem to think, for I had the answer where he not and most those times it was an eel that was bloated and fenner said to those people all kinds of things like to use Epson salt and some type of medication for in which the people only had to do was not offer their eel any more feedings until they return to normal.
But the point there is, no one person knows it all for no matter how extensive my researching be, I will not even by my dying day know it all for yes, people can learn quite a bit in a short time and many of those happen to get themselves a swollen head and then they become reckless and begin to make some serious mistakes.
Now if it is as you said the problems that your grouper seems to be having is as you said it is and that your views to those are correct, then from that i have to believe it be that this grouper is possibly becoming blind and in time yet to come, you will see this for as well when feeding a blind fish, one needs to get the food right in front their mouth(s) for if as well is going blind, it will loose all its natural abilities and will become helpless im sorry to say :( And in which is if it not take to feedings from nudging it in front of its mouth, then again there it be only a matter of time before it comes to its own demise.
You can check me out at http://grimreefers.com/ under the name, Dragon moray eels and see for yourself on what I might know or not as well you will notice that I only asked two questions and it was in the idea of anemones for I asked much of the help needing thing as what most here do for as well, before i get any special type of fish, I first make sure that I can provide it with a healthy diet.
For as of right now, I took the time to produce an article that one other at grims is helping me for with my typing, I couldn't even get a secretary even if I was a sexy young woman in a short skirt. The article isn't posted as yet, for there still be things she (LisaD) and I are working on for the fact be that it is rather hard for me in trying to type all of what i know in my head through years of experiences. So just because of my grammar, don`t write me off as one who not know anything for my typing grammar has nothing to do with the years I did this hobby for I am no beginner by a long shot.
I accept your apologies for misunderstandings can and is an issue a good many times ;) And tell you what, give this all of what you said here to B. Fenner and see what he tells you what he believe be the problem for it might only be your grouper is losing hope to live for many things do have to be reviewed in your tank if this be the case for fish only go and do something as that if any number of things be wrong for tank size is an issue im afraid for you or I cannot ask your fish what is the problem, I know, it sounds stupid and it is, but the thing be, your fish cannot tell you just how unhappy it really be and things like this is one the ways they do tell us :(
Right now, this grouper cannot be placed in your shark pond for the method of have it be acting is a single that of a fish that is to be a potential meal for only in full health should you attempt that.
And just what type of skimmer you have on this tank? And if you can soon try and see if you can upgrade to a sump? I only use sumps on all my tanks and later im setting up a new QT, nothing smaller then a 40 gal tank and it too will have a sump with a build in cooling fan over the sump.
For the reason I ask of your skimmer be, you can as well have a low oxygen levels for the grouper at most hugs the bottom most the time of the tank and if low oxygen levels is or possibly be the case here, you have less oxygen at the bottom of the tank. You or anyone else here can tell me im wrong for fish will not behave normally and they will as well, swim in a weird kind of way. For only you can see what is happening in your tank, I can only share my thoughts with you from what you said on your groupers problems.
Happy New Years All
Buddy ><{{{{">
 
darth tang

darth tang

Active Member
Oh and thanks for the thoughts and ideas. That is what I am looking for. I know it can be any number of possibilities. I am just looking for what I may have missed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top