Percula Clown not feeding

[benj420]

I just set up a 20 gallon tank with the following:
Milennium 3000 filter
20# LS
6# LR
I put in the live sand and ran the filter for 3-4 days. Next I purchased and added 6# of live rock. I know 6# isn't much, but the LFS suggested I start small and add more later. When I purchased the LR, I had my water tested and they said everything was perfect. I added the LR and waited about a week with the filter running. I decided that there weren't enough hiding places yet and put a pile of about 20 or 25 1" PVC elbows and Connectors for some added cover.
Another trip to the LFS and purchased:
2 Yellow Tail Blue Damsels
1 Percula Clown
I added them to the tank and let them get settled in for the rest of the day and that night. Next morning I fed them flake food. The damsels seemed to like it and gobbled most of it up. The clown just sat there in it's typical swagger, not really interested in the food. After another day of this, I went back to the LFS and told them what was happening and they suggested frozen brine shrimp. I tried that and got the same result. The damsels love it, but the clown couldn't care less. I also noted that the damsels seemd to be getting stronger or more comfortable with their surroundings and the larger of the two was starting to take runs at the other damsel and the clown, especially around feeding times. I figured that the clown was getting stressed out and that's why he wasn't feeding. Another trip to the LFS and I purchased a tank divider and a bubble tipped anemone for the clown. Now I have the clown, LR, anemone (and newly added powerhead) in 60% of the tank and the damsels and PVC on the other side. Still I get the same result. The clown doesn't seem afraid of the damsels because he just hangs out by the screen and swaggers. He doesn't seem interested in the anemone either. It has been 5 days now and the clown has never eaten that I can see, and the damsels have eaten consistently.
Do clowns feed differently than other fish?
Is he feeding and I just don't realize it?
Bad water? (I have not done a water change yet)
Bad fish?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[jessicarabit]

Sorry to hear that. How many water changes have you done since you cycled your tank? IT is very important to cycle it all the way b4 adding a fish like a clown, as harder as they are. Damsel are of course ok with harder conditions, but will grow extremely aggressive in time towards all other in the tank. It usually is best to use them first, remove & get them towards the last. Or just let the tank run for 3 wks to a month, then get other types of non aggressive 1st. You could also very well have a bad Perc.
I definitely recommend you buy urself a tester kit to test your own water. You should test it everyday when cycle & keep a log always! Also, look into water boosters, trace elements & vitamin with stress coat (no aloe, clogs the gills). Since you have a small tank I would do a water change every 2 weeks, because the smaller the area, the more likely something will go wrong. Larger surface is more forgiving. Oh & unless you got the sand straight out of a tank, it will take time for it to become 'live'.
I hope this helps you...I luv my Perc & they are fun to have in your aquarium. Good luck...

 

[benj420]

I haven't done any water changes at all yet, but think I will do one tonight. I haven't used stress coat in the past, but did pick some up last time at the LFS.
I can't remember the name of the LS, I'm at work and the bag is at home. It comes in a plastic bag with some water in it. I don't know if it's the same brand, but I believe it's like the -NATURE'S OCEAN BIO-ACTIV ARAGONITE- -LIVE SAND-
that is advertised on this site.
Should I have waited longer after putting this into the tank? The LFG said 24 hours should be enough.
Would the addition of the LR have thrown some things out of whack?

 

[benj420]

Also, can you recommend any test kit over the other? I don't want to spend a fortune, but I do believe in "doing it right the first time".
And, I was going to do a 25% change, does that sound right?

 

[jessicarabit]

You can purchase a small test kit for about $14-$20. It should have HIGH PH, AMMONIA, NITRITE, NITRATE. You an always buy separate single test, like CALCIUM, KH, ETC. The small test kit, if you test every week (I would with a smaller tank) should last pretty long. I have a 55g & I am still using a test kit from over a year...the HIGH PH & NITRATE gets used the most. I don't know what kind of sand you got, never heard of some with water in it, unless it was hand picked & put in a bag. Was it a label brand? Sealed & all? It takes time for it to really get going. LR isn't as difficult.
I think the problem very well lies in you not changing your water! Your supposed to do, if memory serves correct is 2 water changes in the month or so during your cycling. Like 50% or so...dang I cant find it in the reading material & it's been so long. Hopefully someone will know the exact sequence, but I would call around to a couple of LFS & see what they say. Out of curiosity, when did you add the water to your tank & when did you add your fish (exactly)? See, I feel your Damsels are ok, because of their hardiness & even though I have had my Perc live through parasite breakout & freshwater dip & a quarateen tank, poor water conditions are the reason most ppl have problems with their tank. I know this is much in the beginning, but you are really better off with an R/O (Reverse Osmosis) water filtration for PERFECT water. I am assumming you added straight out of the tap water? Not very good, even if you did? add softener, like stress coat. I also recommend an additive (top quaility IMO) Marine Max by Marine Science. Good vitamens & trace elements. Not too expensive & last long time (refrigerate).
I now am concern with your Anenome because of the new set up of your system.
25% every 2 weeks is right. YOu can also get some carbon to help the water stay cleaner & keeps from doing so many water changes...in case you forget & skip a week

 

[benj420]

ph 8.2
nitrite 0.1
nitrate <10
ammonia 0.3
Should I do a change?
Sand is Carib Sea Live sand. Now I see on the back where it says "introduce fish slowly during the first three weeks". Not a great picture, but:

Clownie is looking a little more active today, but still haven't witnessed any feeding.
Also purchased Tropical Science Marine Care Plus conditioner.
My LFS scored some points with me today. They tried to discourage me from spending money on testing supplies and encouraged me to bring them water samples and they will test for free. I live about 45+ minutes away, so it's not real convenient. They even cut me a deal on all four since I wanted them anyway.

 

[col]

Are you cycling your tank with these fish or did you cycle the tank first?
My guess is that you are cycling you tank at the moment and you are putting a strain on the fish. Damsels are very hardy, Clowns not as hardy. This will explain why it's acting strange.
Your LFS didn't score any points with me. Test kits are a necessity in my book and you did right by buying some.

 

[benj420]

I thought I had cycled it by putting the sand in for a week and then the rock in for a week after that. I now see on the sand bag where it says to "introduce fish slowly during the first three weeks". The sand went in on about 10/11. The rock went in on 10/18 (water tested "good" according to LFS). Fish went in on 10/25. When I bought the sand, I said "If I put this in today, how long until I can put fish in?" and he said 24 hours. I thought that surely after 2 weeks that I would be in the clear. Perhaps he meant that I could put a hardy fish like a damsel in, and didn't know I was going to put a clown in.
Based upon my readings above, what do you think?
Change water?
Also, I think I still have the remainder of the water sample that I took to LFS on 10/18. Do you think I can still test it for comparative purposes, or am I just wasting a test?
If it weren't for technology and the Internet, I would have never become interested in Fish. Now I'm a Madman.
By the way col, I think you are like me. I say thanks for the free water tests, but I like to get my hands wet and do everything myself. That way I am going to be much more educated and self sufficient in the future.

 

[col]

Throw the water away from 10/18
Under normal circumstances I would say a tank has not fully cycled until Ammonia and NitrItes are zero.
When this has happened do a 10 - 20% water change.

 

[benj420]

col,
Thanks for the advise. Can you tell me, or point me to a website that is the dummies guide for what each test is telling you and what ideal readings would be for each?
Also, is there anything I can do to make the clown happier until ammonia and nitrites reach zero? Just wait? Do the damsels help or hurt?

 

[benj420]

Clownie is looking even a little more active today and at very least doesn't seem like he is getting any worse. Perhaps he is making the turn.

 

[col]

I spent ages reading books and looking at websites like this one before I even got my tank. Do you have a library where you live, I got loads of books from mine.
On sites like this, use the search facility for specific topics.
I feel like I learned a lot from research but I also feel like i still know very little - picking it up as I go along.
Good luck

 

[benj420]

Thanks. I'll do that.

 

[scubamedic]

I just went through the same thing. Look for the post in this section called "I need help with my clownfish not eating." Everyone helped and the advise worked great.

 

[benj420]

After reading a ton online I think the answer is an uncycled tank. I was put under the impression by my LFS that 1) Your tank cycles without fish in it if you use live sand, and 2) Clowns are in the same family as Damsels (they are) and that they are just as hardy (they are not). So, when I introduced all three fish to the tank at the same time, the cycle began. Around day 7 the clown died, no doubt to ammonia toxicity . I have now purchased test kits for pH, NitrIte, NitrAte, and Ammonia. I now see that I am right on schedule for day 8, and am going to finish the cycle with the two damsels I have now. I am going to do another partial water change tomorrow to offer the damsels some temporary relief as I now understand that it won't prolong the cycle greatly.
A friend offered this advice: Real Estate has what's known as the three L's. Location, location, location. Saltwater tanks have the three R's. Research, research, research. So, that's what I have been doing for the past few days, and have purchsed a few books from amazon.com that will hopefully fill in the gaps in my knowledge.
I'm going to make a 2 hour trip tomorrow to an not-so-LFS that is supposed to be one of the best in the state. Hopefully I can learn a little more there and hopefully I won't be compelled to spend money....... not likely.
Maybe a new Powerhead and Heater. I THINK I can replace those without screwing anything up, but lately I have had the Midas touch.

 

[itchy]

Benj, I do not recommend doing water changes while cycling your tank..this will only prolong you cycle. The damsels are hardy fish and should make it thru the cycle. I know the sand you are using as that is what is in my tank and I had great results with it. It seem now that you are on the right track as far as water parameters and what to do and not to do with your fish. I again would do no more Water Changes until after you have completed a cycle. Good Luck

 

[benj420]

Thanks, I won't do any more changes. If I decide in the future that I want more sand, would you recommend more of the same sand, or something different? Would more of the same try to re-cycle the tank?

 

[itchy]

Benj, as far as the sand goes I think it is all preference. Where I live if I want the real good live sand with the critters in it I go to a LFS here locally and they order 5lbs at a time for me. I started out with the argonite and it was full of bacteria however I needed some pods and worms and things for some of my fish so that is why I added to my LS. I had no problems at all with what I used so it would be up to you. If I were you I would take the 35-40 dollars it cost per bag to buy some more LR as it is great to help cycle your tank, unless of course you just want more LS. Thats just my suggestion ...good luck!!!