Pet store problem, Tell me if im wrong. Please.

[jer4916]

Hey everyone,
I know each and everyone of us has had a bad transaction at a swf store at one point in time. But I'm wondering if you guys can tell me if IM wrong, or if the petstore is wrong.
About a month ago I bought a naso tang from one of my cities local fish stores, the tang seemed in good health....but to my suprise wasn't. The tang lasted in my tank for right around 3 days....it was properly acclimated (4 hours) and no light for a day...so i made sure that everything was done correctly,...even placed a heater in with the fish while acclimating to make sure that the temp was the same when he entered his new home. Anyways the fish died needless to say for unknown reasons...but anyways i paid $63.50 for the fish...and the petstore would do nothing to cover the fish, nor would they work with me at all in the purchase of another fish. So i went to my credit card company to get my money back...they granted me the money back..and found the petstore in the wrong. Also on that note i spoke to my 2 other pet stores in town and they stated clearly even though they dont have a warrenty they would have replaced or worked with me on another fish. But the petstore who had to " refund " my money will not allow me to shop in there buisness again....because of the issue.
is this fair?...am i wrong?...
you be the judge.
~Chris
also note my reef has been up for 6 months, water is PERFECT down to having a ro unit attached to the tank, uv attached, and i use only bottled water in the tank.

 

[jacknjill]

4 hours is actually too much acclimation. at tops i just do 2 hours.
anyways, my fish store doesnt do sw refunds either because so many people have no idea what they are doing

 

[jer4916]

Originally Posted by JacknJill
4 hours is actually too much acclimation. at tops i just do 2 hours.
anyways, my fish store doesnt do sw refunds either because so many people have no idea what they are doing

people not knowing where they're doing is totally true....but i'm a serious reef keeper...and have never lost a fish that quickly...i've had fish eatten...i've had fish jump out of my tank....i've had my cat fall in my tank...lol...but i've never had one just die on me so quickly...rather big bummer honestly....
~Chris
I've been told 4 - 5 hours is the proper amount of time for acclimation.
as long as your taking water out as you go along...incase the animal releases waste.

 

[jacknjill]

i found that when my fish were acclimated over 2 hours, they seemed to get stressed.
(your cat fell in the tank? how?) lol
your lfs should have worked with you if you have given them a lot of business. another one i go to does, but not FULL credit.

 

[jer4916]

all the pet stores in town know me, why?..because i buy swf stuff like CRAZY...at the petstore i purchased the tang from i've done around $1400 in buisness in under 6 months ... so i think its actully a stupid move on there part...but im not to stressed...the other pet store will give me an animal at cost if the one i purchase dies.....and my private guy...i've never lost a fish from him...but he ALWAYS works with me....so its not a huge deal...it just bothers me how someone can spend that kind of money at your store...and if they ask for assistance over a dead animal ...how they can just say " no " and not expect you to do something about it...
i was cleaning the tank...and my cat hop'd inside my lighting unit...lost its foot ...and splaaaaaaash...wet kitty.
lol
it was to cute

 

[oozy]

I bought a voltin lion from pteco. it died after 4 hours. i hadnt had a chance to put him in the tank. I took it back the next day first thing 9:00 am opening. the manager told me that its not her problem and this is the risk I take with salt water fish.
I told her NO WAY, i want a replace ment.
after this she offered half off, split the difference.
Once again i said this is unacceptable. I explained my experience, and that I was a long term customer...
also the retard that NETTED the lion also grabbed on to it to flip the net and drop it in the bag, got stung. I argued that he caused dammage to the fish...
I am still pissed, and havnt been back. I told her this was bad buisness and she lost a coustomer.
eventualy she broke down and refunded my $.
this is what we have to do sometimes to keep LFS's responsible for how they treat their fish and capture methods...
it seems weird they refuse your buisness...totaly stupid buisness move.
SCREW THEM! i wouldnt be back anyway.
i feel your pain

-oozy-

 

[jer4916]

Some petstores do make poor buisness moves....but its apart of the hobby....i just feel bad for the tang, he was beeeeeeeeeeeauitful.
~Chris

 

[batman1820]

Well I don't think the pet shop is wrong because many people don't have a clue about what they're doing with saltwater plus SW fish tend to have high mortality rates compared to Freshwater.... they should have clearly stated that they took no refunds and no warranties... Sorry

 

[sawsman]

jer4916,
Yes they should have clearly stated that they do not warranty their fish. They are in the wrong if they dont make this known to the customer. On the other hand I can see why some LFS do not warranty fish, they do not because they cannot control other peoples tanks, how they run them, know that the customers water quality is as good as they say ect. I've lost some expensive fish before as have alot of others im sure. Its frustrating and Im sorry your fish died but unfortunately this is an expensive hobby and it happens as you are well aware. Was this fish in their store for awhile or did they just recently receive it? what other fish are kept in your tank? was there the possibility that another fish was stressing him out?
In defense of the LFS I dont think that they should have to warranty their fish, its totally up to the store but they should make it clearly known. On the other hand I would think that when someone like yourself who seems to have a good knowledge in the hobby and is trying to do things right rather than just throw the fish into the tank when you get home then I feel that the store should in good faith try to make things right.
not trying to be the judge as there is only one. GOOD LUCK !!
-sawsman

 

[mikeyjer]

All my LFS clearly stated there's no warranty on saltwater fish! Depending on the size of your Naso Tang, small ones sometimes don't eat well and will die from starvation, always ask the LFS to feed the fish before you purchase to make sure it eats. The larger Naso are usually better then the smaller ones cause they will eat most of the time. It depends how long the Naso has been at the shop too, it may have been starving the whole time it was at the shop then you bought it stressing it out further and not eat well. When we got our Naso, it took us 10 days to get it to eat anything. We were stressing about losing him to starvation. He wouldn't eat live brine shrimp, green algae, formula two, etc etc. Nothing at all!!! Then we bought brown algae, that's when he started eating, not sure if it was because he was starving or that's what he wanted, but it did get him to eat and ever since then he eats everything I put in the tank. I have read that they eat brown algae in the wild so I give him what he needed. :happyfish

 

[murph]

As has been mentioned the store has no way of knowing if the fish was handled correctly after it left the store or have any control over the tank conditions that it goes into. Likewise the customer has no way of know for sure if the animal was shipped properly or housed in good conditions at the lfs and there is a long list of things that could have happened to the fish that would guarantee its early demise shortly after reaching the LFS or your tank.
My LFS guarantees its fish for two days. I would not however ask them to replace the fish if it died in that time since there is no way of knowing just what caused its demise. If I had a specimen die in less than a weeks time in my tank I would request that they replace it at coast. There cost is probably half or less than the retail price.
If the store cant even agree to that I would not shop at that LFS. So no, I don't feel that you are in the wrong at all if you made an attempt to work with them in this fashion I depending on my mood may have made that call to the credit card company myself.
As far as acclimation I at the least make sure that the SG of my tank and the acclimation bucket even out before introducing the fish. Considering the low SG present in most dealers tanks this vary well could reach the 4 hour mark. I do not however kill my lights totally when introducing the fish. I reduce to actinics. IMO a healthy non mail order fish that is not subject to emidiet aggression from an established fish should quickly start exploring its new surroundings upon introduction and be eating within a short period of time.

 

[key00west]

I work at a LFS here in Florida and we have a two day guarantee on ALL of our SW fish, if the fish dies in those two days, we ask them to bring the fish back in, with a sample of water, now if there is nothing wrong with the water, we will replace that fish at no extra cost, that should be the way your LFS should guarantee your new fish

 

[crzyfshygy]

There needs to be a "new age" in SWF purchases. I hate to say it but it needs to happen. These LFS need to work this out with there vendors. They would see more business that way. I have a LFs inmy area called BIG ALS and there tanks are filled with dead corals and if you do not know anybetter you will purchase one just like me. I demanded a cash refund and got it on a dead Monti. I also bought 2 black clowns there that had ich and returned them both. Thats why I go back. When I have a bad experience like at the BARRIER REEF.......I talk about it. No one should shop there!!!!!! They are all Idiots and DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE CUSTOMER. I have spent thousands in there and they gave me a huge problem when they oversold me on equipment. Thay would not return it!
Thats why it important to know this hobby!!!!!! Even if it break 2 weeks later they will do nothin....they will make you call the manufactuer. Thats not how you do business!

 

[danedodger]

Well despite people's replies to this being conflicting in some parts I do agree with everyone. Many of these guys are just delicate, it'd be hard to offer an unconditional money back guarantee on these fish, but at the same time stores should be willing to talk with you and give what's appropriate too. I think it should at least be flexible according to the situation. I work for ***** in Temple. Just yesterday there was a couple wanting to buy ALL sorts of largish fish so I know that they are not very experienced. I refused to sell them more than two fish and told them I was doing them a huge favor by advising them against the panther grouper. Since they took my advice and seem well intended just not knowledgable yet if they came back with a problem depending on their explantion of whether or not they acclimated them like I advised, their water test, etc. I might or might not agree to working with them even though we do not have a guarantee on our saltwater fish.
On the other hand, a regular customer came in yesterday as well. I know this guy and he's a serious hobbyist with a lot of knowledge! Because of our no guarantee he came in up in arms ready to fight about me working with him but I told him that a) I KNOW that the powder brown he bought was having a little stress/acclimation problems right there at the store before he even bought it b) I know that it was very unlikely that the fish died because of anything he did since he knows his stuff and c) it was very obvious that what he said about it not even making it out of the bag was true. So I readily gave him a full refund of that fish towards the purchase of another fish he wanted.
I guess the bottom line is your best bet is to really get to know the people at your LFS so that you know who to trust and in talking with you they will know that they can trust you too!

 

[bronco300]

i'll agree, it really sucks that a pet store will not offer a refund on the fish, but like mentioned before....the LFS has absolutely no idea what a person does with the fish, if they acclimate them correctly, feed them, if the tank is ready, etc etc....for all they know you could be just another liar trying to rip them off becuase you dont know what you are doing with the saltwater fish....i'm not saying you don't, but i know there are a lot of people, even people that work at my lfs that have a tank for 1 months and heave everything from clownfish to anemones and every other little thing they can think of in their tank before its ready...and there isnt really a good way to monitor who is honest and who is not...unless they send an employee with each perons who makes a purchase to make sure its acclimated correctly. But like i said it does suck that an lfs will not refund for anything because those who are experienced and know what to do lose out because of those who may try to take advantage of the store....this is just my two cents..i'm sorry for your lose and wish the fish store could refund it for you....but with the world today its a bit harder to do so sometimes. Thats why i think its a good idea to really get to know the store and its workers...then that trust can go a lot further than just as a normal customer.

 

[ssweet1]

At least yours lasted 3 days....... I bought a copperband after seeing him eat at a LFS. I talked with the manager beforehand about acclimating and care etc. He reassured me that he would put it in a huge bag and that it would be fine. Well it didnt even make it home to acclimate. The nitrates were off the chart and I immediately called and they said bring the fish in to prove it. I brought it right in and he said well we usually dont have any guarranty but I will give you 10% off of another. Wow that is like $4 off

Needless to say I have not been back- their loss, I was a very good customer. I didnt think about the credit card refusal-darn it. Carrie

 

[ophiura]

I think the store has a right to not offer a warranty. It is a risk you take in the hobby. It should be clearly posted, but if it is, you assume that risk. If it is not, then you were in the right, IMO.
This is not at all uncommon in the hobby. It is why you should be very selective in where you shop, and what you buy. And also to put all new fish into QT instead of into a main tank. These fish go through a lot, and sometimes they just die...it isn't necessarily any more the LFSs problem than it is the buyers problem. You just got caught standing when the music turned off. It is the nature of the business. Very few stores, IME, offer warranties on SWF, and if I buy a fish from them I know this. So I don't buy fish from many stores. Some might work something out...others wouldn't give you money back if the fish died on the way home in the bag.
But if everyone did the credit card refusal, well, I think you would see an aweful lot of LFS going out of business because the fact is, HUGE numbers of fish die within the first days...and it is not necessarily anything the store did any more than it is what you did. Why should they take the loss? Its a tough call.
How long was the fish at the store? How well was it eating at the store? This is why it is super critical to really study a fish you may be buying. I would not buy a fish that hadn't been in the store at least a week and the store should show it eats as well.
But a store would have to take HUGE liability in offering the warranties, because as noted people often do not treat fish properly and there is no way of knowing. If your fish jumped out of the tank...should they warranty it? How do they know if the fish jumped or not? Just like people think most LFS are crooks, well, there are a whole lot of customers that are shady too. And again, there is the whole "fish just die" issue again. Why are they obligated to take the full loss of the fish when it didn't die in their tanks.
Maybe they should have worked with you, though 3 days, IME, would be a fair bit of time later. Where I worked, we offered a 7 day warranty but then everyone complains about the price of the fish
It is not surprising other stores "agree" with you. They want your business, and they don't want the other guy getting it either. But in the same position they may not have been so eager to please.
Without knowing specifically about how they were approached about the dead fish, and the overall policies of the store, I would say that they were not obligated to provide a warranty...but perhaps should have cut off a bit of $$ from another fish to be nice. But basically it is how the business works, and they are not obligated, IMO, to be nice.

I guess you'll be shopping elsewhere anyway though.

 

[blazehok68]

My Lfs Offers A 24hr Warranty On All Saltwater Species As Long As You Bring In A Water Sample So They Can Test It. I Think That Is Quite Fair.
As For The Credit Card Issue......isnt That Considered Theft By Deceit??

 

[jer4916]

Originally Posted by BLAZEHOK68
My Lfs Offers A 24hr Warranty On All Saltwater Species As Long As You Bring In A Water Sample So They Can Test It. I Think That Is Quite Fair.
As For The Credit Card Issue......isnt That Considered Theft By Deceit??

how is that theft? the animal died due to stress/illness...nothing i did
i think stores should have a 24hr warrrenty myself
atleast

 

[oozy]

hi,
its not theft,
remember there are people out there who buy saltwater fish and put them in fresh water, not knowing any better.
or
people adding 6 fish at once...
its the LFS trying to protect its buisness,
which i would do if i had my own LFS,
however,
its the warentee that is the reall issue here, they should have stated this clearly.
im with you in the whole, hold up your own warintee, but these LFS's can not be responsible for every death,
espicaly when dealing with sensitive organisims like SWF.
just shop elseware
-oozy-