acrylic51
Active Member
Thought I'd post this over here as well, which will make some interesting reading........
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry
Phosphates From Frozen Foods......
- Thread starter acrylic51
- Start date
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/391417/phosphates-from-frozen-foods#post_3471044
Thought I'd post this over here as well, which will make some interesting reading........
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry
Well, I can get off the soap box about flake food. I read the entire atricle....basically no matter what, when it comes to phosphates we are screwed. Even the fish poop has phosphates off the chart when you consider how many fish per tank. The only way to keep 0 phosphates are to keep plastic fish and fake corals....oh wait even then, the RO water already has phospates.
The article didn't offer a single solution. So here is a very good article to help us keep it in check.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php
Oh...don't misunderstand, I think the article was great, it explained alot. It just left me feeling very helpless fighting a losing battle so I offered the other article to help us have perspective.
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/391417/phosphates-from-frozen-foods#post_3471044
Thought I'd post this over here as well, which will make some interesting reading........
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry
Well, I can get off the soap box about flake food. I read the entire atricle....basically no matter what, when it comes to phosphates we are screwed. Even the fish poop has phosphates off the chart when you consider how many fish per tank. The only way to keep 0 phosphates are to keep plastic fish and fake corals....oh wait even then, the RO water already has phospates.
The article didn't offer a single solution. So here is a very good article to help us keep it in check.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php
Oh...don't misunderstand, I think the article was great, it explained alot. It just left me feeling very helpless fighting a losing battle so I offered the other article to help us have perspective.
acrylic51
Active Member
Flower the article wasn't written to offer solutions to fixing the phosphate issue or recommend ways to combat the struggles we all face, it was written IMHO more on the fact that the "conversation" that I see so much here on this forum about rinsing and straining your frozen foods and what not before feeding as not much "help" with controlling the "input" of phosphates.......
I can't tell you how many times I see the recommendation of "must rinse", I was just pointing out a mere fact from a very highly respected individual his findings on the subject matter......You are very correct the total elimination is tough....When you constantly have "intake" and "output" of phosphates.....
I can't tell you how many times I see the recommendation of "must rinse", I was just pointing out a mere fact from a very highly respected individual his findings on the subject matter......You are very correct the total elimination is tough....When you constantly have "intake" and "output" of phosphates.....
acrylic51
Active Member
Flower another very good article by Randy......Again he didn't leave you hanging in the wind.....The article you found does offer suggestions. Again my point for posting was to bring it to the fore front of the "rinsing theory".....At times the hobbyist, much do his/her own digging to find the solutions or possible solutions to problems.......
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/391417/phosphates-from-frozen-foods#post_3471069
Flower another very good article by Randy......Again he didn't leave you hanging in the wind.....The article you found does offer suggestions. Again my point for posting was to bring it to the fore front of the "rinsing theory".....At times the hobbyist, much do his/her own digging to find the solutions or possible solutions to problems.......
Well I must admit the article was very enlightening. I thought flake food was the worse for phosphates...I was wrong. Nor did I know that PO4 was even in fish poop or the RO water.... It's everywhere.
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/391417/phosphates-from-frozen-foods#post_3471069
Flower another very good article by Randy......Again he didn't leave you hanging in the wind.....The article you found does offer suggestions. Again my point for posting was to bring it to the fore front of the "rinsing theory".....At times the hobbyist, much do his/her own digging to find the solutions or possible solutions to problems.......
Well I must admit the article was very enlightening. I thought flake food was the worse for phosphates...I was wrong. Nor did I know that PO4 was even in fish poop or the RO water.... It's everywhere.
acrylic51
Active Member
Just as I've seen people post about running scrubbers and harvesting macros from their fuges and then using it as food for their tangs and such.....What are you honestly eliminating......Nothing IMHO.....The macros and such grew because of the "elements" and the purpose of harvesting them was to remove them from the system and now, when we feed these macros back to the fish, we (in my mind) are actually introducing more waste; by product back into the closed system.......
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/391417/phosphates-from-frozen-foods#post_3471090
That's why a laugh a bit, when in the past I've seen people state there parameters are "perfect"....."0".....There is always going to be levels of something.....If we stop and think about it anything that consumes will give off some by product some way shape or form......
Just as I've seen people post about running scrubbers and harvesting macros from their fuges and then using it as food for their tangs and such.....What are you honestly eliminating......Nothing IMHO.....The macros and such grew because of the "elements" and the purpose of harvesting them was to remove them from the system and now, when we feed these macros back to the fish, we (in my mind) are actually introducing more waste; by product back into the closed system.......
LOL...well at least with the seahorses (who do not eat macroalgae) when I harvest the stuff it is out of the tank. I really don't think I could keep SHs without macros, they so messy when they eat that phosphates would be off the charts.
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/391417/phosphates-from-frozen-foods#post_3471090
Just as I've seen people post about running scrubbers and harvesting macros from their fuges and then using it as food for their tangs and such.....What are you honestly eliminating......Nothing IMHO.....The macros and such grew because of the "elements" and the purpose of harvesting them was to remove them from the system and now, when we feed these macros back to the fish, we (in my mind) are actually introducing more waste; by product back into the closed system.......
LOL...well at least with the seahorses (who do not eat macroalgae) when I harvest the stuff it is out of the tank. I really don't think I could keep SHs without macros, they so messy when they eat that phosphates would be off the charts.
xcali1985
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/391417/phosphates-from-frozen-foods#post_3471090
That's why a laugh a bit, when in the past I've seen people state there parameters are "perfect"....."0".....There is always going to be levels of something.....If we stop and think about it anything that consumes will give off some by product some way shape or form......
Just as I've seen people post about running scrubbers and harvesting macros from their fuges and then using it as food for their tangs and such.....What are you honestly eliminating......Nothing IMHO.....The macros and such grew because of the "elements" and the purpose of harvesting them was to remove them from the system and now, when we feed these macros back to the fish, we (in my mind) are actually introducing more waste; by product back into the closed system.......
The lowest I have ever seen is .01 and that was with my Hanna Instruments Checker. This was from a friends SPS tank and he runs GFO. If you run your filtration correctly it can be removed at a fast enough pace to to keep it low.
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/391417/phosphates-from-frozen-foods#post_3471090
Just as I've seen people post about running scrubbers and harvesting macros from their fuges and then using it as food for their tangs and such.....What are you honestly eliminating......Nothing IMHO.....The macros and such grew because of the "elements" and the purpose of harvesting them was to remove them from the system and now, when we feed these macros back to the fish, we (in my mind) are actually introducing more waste; by product back into the closed system.......
The lowest I have ever seen is .01 and that was with my Hanna Instruments Checker. This was from a friends SPS tank and he runs GFO. If you run your filtration correctly it can be removed at a fast enough pace to to keep it low.
spanko
Active Member
Great article by a well respected chemist. Good find!
It is also a good thing to not that symbiotic corals take up phosphates and ammonia from the surrounding seawater by day and release them at night.
http://www.globalcoral.org/corals_and_coral_reefs.htm
"Zooxanthellae provide a coral with all the sugars it can use; much of it is almost immediately excreted from the coral as mucus. Sugars are used for energy; consequently, zooxanthellae provide fuel, which the coral uses to feed on other things. What zooxanthellae cannot provide are the important nutrients such as proteins, phosphates, minerals, and a host of other materials. They do provide the energy to build and utilize the coral’s own plankton-sampling machinery: the tentacles, the nematocysts, the mouth, and the digestive tissues.
One of the famous questions in biology is: “What is life?” It is amazingly difficult to define all life inclusively. The major property of life, however—its main defining characteristic—is that it evolves. And one of the major characteristics of natural selection is that it removes anything that is costly or unnecessary. All organisms are on a budget, and any organism that spends energy producing unnecessary body parts eventually loses the race to another organism that has eliminated superfluous items. British zoologist Sir Charles Maurice Yonge once famously noted that of all predators, corals devoted the largest proportion of their bodies to food capture and consumption. This property alone tells researchers, and should tell aquarists, that corals need to eat to obtain proteins for new tissue, phosphates for nucleic acids, and many other substances."
http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/what-corals-eat
It is also a good thing to not that symbiotic corals take up phosphates and ammonia from the surrounding seawater by day and release them at night.
http://www.globalcoral.org/corals_and_coral_reefs.htm
"Zooxanthellae provide a coral with all the sugars it can use; much of it is almost immediately excreted from the coral as mucus. Sugars are used for energy; consequently, zooxanthellae provide fuel, which the coral uses to feed on other things. What zooxanthellae cannot provide are the important nutrients such as proteins, phosphates, minerals, and a host of other materials. They do provide the energy to build and utilize the coral’s own plankton-sampling machinery: the tentacles, the nematocysts, the mouth, and the digestive tissues.
One of the famous questions in biology is: “What is life?” It is amazingly difficult to define all life inclusively. The major property of life, however—its main defining characteristic—is that it evolves. And one of the major characteristics of natural selection is that it removes anything that is costly or unnecessary. All organisms are on a budget, and any organism that spends energy producing unnecessary body parts eventually loses the race to another organism that has eliminated superfluous items. British zoologist Sir Charles Maurice Yonge once famously noted that of all predators, corals devoted the largest proportion of their bodies to food capture and consumption. This property alone tells researchers, and should tell aquarists, that corals need to eat to obtain proteins for new tissue, phosphates for nucleic acids, and many other substances."
http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/what-corals-eat
sweatervest13
Active Member
Thanks for posting links to all the articles!!!!
What I learned: 1) I no longer HAVE to rinse my frozen cubed food (as a way to control phosphates). 2) I need to feed my corals more (Anything that has that much of its body dedicated to collecting and eating food needs to be feed).
Unrelated to reading this I have recently stopped rinsing my food (being lazy, lol), and I have been turning off all my pumps when feeding. I have noticed that if I leave the pumps off for a half hour or so the feeding tentacles of my stony coral are out and extended. It is nice to see that back up by some research.
Again thanks to all who posted links. I love reading stuff like this.
What I learned: 1) I no longer HAVE to rinse my frozen cubed food (as a way to control phosphates). 2) I need to feed my corals more (Anything that has that much of its body dedicated to collecting and eating food needs to be feed).
Unrelated to reading this I have recently stopped rinsing my food (being lazy, lol), and I have been turning off all my pumps when feeding. I have noticed that if I leave the pumps off for a half hour or so the feeding tentacles of my stony coral are out and extended. It is nice to see that back up by some research.
Again thanks to all who posted links. I love reading stuff like this.
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweatervest13 http:///t/391417/phosphates-from-frozen-foods#post_3471857
Thanks for posting links to all the articles!!!!
What I learned: 1) I no longer HAVE to rinse my frozen cubed food (as a way to control phosphates). 2) I need to feed my corals more (Anything that has that much of its body dedicated to collecting and eating food needs to be feed).
Unrelated to reading this I have recently stopped rinsing my food (being lazy, lol), and I have been turning off all my pumps when feeding. I have noticed that if I leave the pumps off for a half hour or so the feeding tentacles of my stony coral are out and extended. It is nice to see that back up by some research.
Again thanks to all who posted links. I love reading stuff like this.
I would still rinse the frozen foods. The article said it still got rid of quite a bit of the phophates that you are adding. I would shut down the filters but run the power heads so the food travels thru the tank. That's how my seahorses like to eat too.
Originally Posted by sweatervest13 http:///t/391417/phosphates-from-frozen-foods#post_3471857
Thanks for posting links to all the articles!!!!
What I learned: 1) I no longer HAVE to rinse my frozen cubed food (as a way to control phosphates). 2) I need to feed my corals more (Anything that has that much of its body dedicated to collecting and eating food needs to be feed).
Unrelated to reading this I have recently stopped rinsing my food (being lazy, lol), and I have been turning off all my pumps when feeding. I have noticed that if I leave the pumps off for a half hour or so the feeding tentacles of my stony coral are out and extended. It is nice to see that back up by some research.
Again thanks to all who posted links. I love reading stuff like this.
I would still rinse the frozen foods. The article said it still got rid of quite a bit of the phophates that you are adding. I would shut down the filters but run the power heads so the food travels thru the tank. That's how my seahorses like to eat too.
