physics/engineering question regarding refugium/sump flow rates

[islandkoa]

Will the refugium flow rate be 300 gallons per hour in the illustrated setup? Also, will the return section be the section which water level lowers with evaporation thus requiring and ato? I think this will work and the refugium flow will somehow correlate with the skimmer net flow (400) and display tank flow (700) to make 300 gph. Don't understand
how this works though.




.

 

[mr llimpid]

From what I get out of the picture is that the skimmer has no effect on the return of water to the DT. The only thing is the discharge of the skimmer needs to be above the water line in your discharge chamber. Your 1,000GPH control the amount of water returning to your DT, less the head pressure. For your evaporation I believe you are correct my refu is different but that is were my evaporation shows up.

 

[beaslbob]

I would simply route one of the drain lines (or Tee a single drain) directly to the skimmer.

And get rid of the seperate 700g pump to the skimmer from the drain area.

there is a very good likelyhood that 700g pump to the skimmer (at 0 height) will over power to 1000g pump pumping against a 4' height.

that would empty that drain area and cause all kinds of problems.

But none of that would happen by having the skimmer connected to the drain directly.

But then I don't use a skimmer so perhaps the real experts can chime ing.

afterall it's just my .02

 

[mr llimpid]

Bob has good point about the skimmer, I don't have one on my sump, you need to drain your skimmer back into the same place you are tacking from so you won’t drain that chamber. But you will need the pump for the skimmer to create the turbulent water so it will skimmer properly.

 

[beaslbob]

Quote:Originally Posted by Mr LLimpid http:///t/396323/physics-engineering-question-regarding-refugium-sump-flow-rates#post_3530953
Bob has good point about the skimmer, I don't have one on my sump, you need to drain your skimmer back into the same place you are tacking from so you won’t drain that chamber. But you will need the pump for the skimmer to create the turbulent water so it will skimmer properly.

That seems like a good way to go also.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandkoa http:///t/396323/physics-engineering-question-regarding-refugium-sump-flow-rates#post_3530921
Will the refugium flow rate be 300 gallons per hour in the illustrated setup? Also, will the return section be the section which water level lowers with evaporation thus requiring and ato? I think this will work and the refugium flow will somehow correlate with the skimmer net flow (400) and display tank flow (700) to make 300 gph. Don't understand
how this works though.




.


In theory this idea would work as long as you chose a skimmer pump that didn't exceed the flow rate that your return pump is actually pumping into the display. Assuming you've chosen an external skimmer that requires a feed pump that is.

Only thing I don't like about the idea is having the skimmer output draining directly into the return chamber being that close to the pump. This could have the tendency for your return pump to suck the bubbles up and blow them into the display (makes the tank look cloudy). If you had a large enough return chamber you could probably get away with it. But the illustration kind of has me shaking my head on the idea. If anything I would move the skimmer to the other side of the sump tank and plumb the intake and output of the skimmer into that chamber on that side of the tank.

Plus the fluctuation water level in the return chamber (from evaporation) would effect your skimmers performance unless the output was either always submerged or always higher than the water line. That's the only way would find some consistency good or bad.

 

[islandkoa]

Thanks all. I was told by the precision marine bullet 2 manufacturer that the skimmer output is 400 gph so with the 700 gph net return, I would be ok, I think. I've considered the separate drain that bob eluded to but my skimmer requires in excess of 700 gph skimmer pump which the skimmer limits the flow rate to 400. I am concerned about the bubbles that quills mentioned as well as fluctuating water level. So the skimmer's output will be an inch or 2 below the surface. My return compt is about 7" x 15".

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandkoa http:///t/396323/physics-engineering-question-regarding-refugium-sump-flow-rates#post_3530976
Thanks all. I was told by the precision marine bullet 2 manufacturer that the skimmer output is 400 gph so with the 700 gph net return, I would be ok, I think. I've considered the separate drain that bob eluded to but my skimmer requires in excess of 700 gph skimmer pump which the skimmer limits the flow rate to 400. I am concerned about the bubbles that quills mentioned as well as fluctuating water level. So the skimmer's output will be an inch or 2 below the surface. My return compt is about 7" x 15".

Not sure how the output of the skimmer will be plumbed in through the tank. But if it's possible you maybe could ad an elbow at the end of the pipe in the return chamber to direct the skimmers output flow towards the surface of the water and away from the pump.

I have about 165 gallons total water volume between my tank and the sump. My return chamber has a foot print of 16"x18". The system evaporates approximately 1.25 gallons a day currently. That amounts to almost exactly 1" of drop in the water level ever 24 hours. Don't know if you can relate that to your plans or not to get an idea of how much drop you could be looking at in the chamber on a daily basis. On a similar sized volume system if your chamber is about half the size of mine you'd be looking at maybe a 2" drop per day.

Just speculating here.

 

[acrylic51]

Personally I like the drawing, but the layout of the skimmer output isn't a wise choice....You will have issues with the skimmer outputting micro bubbles.....Those will be sucked back into the DT and it will be amplified.....

 

[islandkoa]

I do have an ATO (I should have proofread my original post) so the water level  fluctuations will be minimal. Ideally, I would prefer the skimmer to be discharged in the sock or refugium chamber but the discharge has to be located at or near the surface, thus limiting the water height in those chambers if I were to do so. I'll try placing a t-connection on the skimmer's discharge to reduce the bubbles. If that doesn't work, i'll divide the return chamber using a couple baffles. I hope my plumbing: one 1" and one 3/4" drain and one 1" return are adequate for approx 600-700 gph flow.

 

[2quills]

Drain size should be fine. If anything you can use the 3/4" drain as a full siphon and use the 1" as an open channel.
The skimmers discharge line no matter where you place it doesn't effect the water level in a particular chamber. The water level in your fuge and drain chamber is determined by the height of your second to last baffle in the illustration. Unless, ofcorse you decide to over fill the return chamber.