Please help ID new fishy friend

[damzel_grl]

Were purchased what we thought were 2 were two damzels from ***** today. One is most cecrtainly a domino damzel. He has a very sassy personality and for being so little is not afraid of anything. The other one I'm not so sure is a damzel. He is black and white striped and we thought he was a 3-strip damzel unitl I noticed he has 4 black stripes not 3. Anyone have a clue what he is. He has a very cute personality and seems to love to play and hide and seek, i.e when you walk over the tank he will swim into a hole and then swim out, swim back in and then back in. The kids love it. He is very cute and him and domino seem to get along. Just wondering if anyone knows what he is. Were pretty new to the swf thing so were not so keen on all the fish yet.
Also we are looking at adding a nemo fish in a few weeks (because are daughter really wants Nemo) will my little spit fire of a domino beat up on Nemo???
As I said we are pretty new to this and any help would be great.
Thanks!!! :happyfish

 

[unleashed]

its called a 4 striped damsel

very possible the clown and both damsels will fight damsels can be very agressive with other damsels and yes a clown is of the damsel family

 

[damzel_grl]

Thank you for the quick response.
Will these two be mean to a clown fish?

 

[unleashed]

Originally Posted by damzel_grl
Thank you for the quick response.
Will these two be mean to a clown fish?
get one a little bigger than the other to give it a better chance of defending itself what size tank are they going into?and when putting the new clown into the tank rearrange the rock work to break up established territories .they will all have to find new territories.this is a good pratice to remember when ever adding any new fish into the tank.

 

[damzel_grl]

We are starting with just a 10 gallon for now. If all goes okay we will be upgrading to a bigger one, something like a 55, maybe. Were just getting started, actually went to fish store to get a new betta and end up coming home with a swf set up. As we didn't find this site until we bought everything already (minus fish) we thought the small the better to learn, guess we were wrong from what I read.
Right now we have the 2 damsels, a hermit crab and a coral bande shrimp. I just read on here the shrimp should be in a 55 gallon or more. So much for listening to the people at the fish store, they said he would be fine.
Do you think there is to much, a enough or do you think we could add just one clown? I think my poor daughter would be hear broken if she couldn't have nemo but i also don't want to kill a fish either.

Thanks for the help!!!

 

[sagowitz]

You didn't cycle the tank, right?

 

[unleashed]

I highly recomend waiting until you do get a larger tank to purchese your clown fish the smaller the tank the less bioload it will take before amonia and nitrates take over .water quality is much harder to keep in peek levels due to its size.your lfs knowing that you just set up this tank should also have known better than to sell you banded shrimp for such a young tank(shame on them) inverts should be added to an established tank.I made this mistake also in the beginning all inverts died withing a couple weeks due to lack of food and nutrients supplied by an establish system(they cannot tolerate the amonia spikes).as for a larger set up check out our classified thread lots of used equipment for sale

 

[danedodger]

My advice, do NOT add anything else to that tank! Cycling is so rough on fish it can kill them and in such a small tank the cycle is going to be harder than if it was a larger tank! More animals = more ammonia in a small space = more and more risk to the fish.
I would also bag up that hermit crab and shrimp, if not both damsels too, and take them right back to the store! ***** doesn't offer a guarantee on saltwater fish but they acted ignorantly and irresponsibly so they should take full responsibility! Then either ask for a comment form to fill out and send in or go to the website online and report this incident.
I work for our local ***** as the Aquatics Specialist and, IMO, there is NO excuse for any ***** employee to do something like this! ***** doesn't give adequate training about aquatics, if you ask me, but I took the time to learn and so can any of the others if they only care enough or, with any luck, if they get enough complaints about this kind of thing they will decide to give better training.

 

[damzel_grl]

Originally Posted by Sagowitz
You didn't cycle the tank, right?
The tank has been set up for about a month. We have been testing the water every other day. The reading have been amon=0, trites=0, trates=0, PH 8.3 and the salinity(sp) has been at 1.022.

 

[danedodger]

But have you tested it since you put fish in it? Within only a few days, at the most I'd say, those readings are going to explode.
Your readings all said 0 for a month because there was no biological waste raising the ammonia leading to the growth of beneficial bacteria for the tank to cycle with. Now that you've got fish in there you've got fish wastes and any uneaten food which is going to raise the ammonia.

 

[damzel_grl]

Originally Posted by DaneDodger
But have you tested it since you put fish in it? Within only a few days, at the most I'd say, those readings are going to explode.
Your readings all said 0 for a month because there was no biological waste raising the ammonia leading to the growth of beneficial bacteria for the tank to cycle with. Now that you've got fish in there you've got fish wastes and any uneaten food which is going to raise the ammonia.

We just these guys in last night, I tested levels this morning and all numbers were the same as above. My question I guess is what do I do now? I don't want to kill these guys but I also don't know if ***** will take them back. Also if I take them back how do I get my tank to cycle without using LR. We do have LS in the tank, I don't know if that will do anything.
Any help would be great as ***** seems to not know what they are doing.

 

[dragonladylea]

First question I have is what exactly did you get with the "swf setup" ? As you can tell by now you cannot always trust everything you are told by a lfs. Your best source of information is the forums like this one imo. And try to never "impulse buy" without doing research first. You will save alot of time, hassle and in your little ones case - broken hearts.
That said lets start with what you have and where to go from there.

 

[damzel_grl]

Originally Posted by Dragonladylea
First question I have is what exactly did you get with the "swf setup" ? As you can tell by now you cannot always trust everything you are told by a lfs. Your best source of information is the forums like this one imo. And try to never "impulse buy" without doing research first. You will save alot of time, hassle and in your little ones case - broken hearts.
That said lets start with what you have and where to go from there.

I will try to discribe what we have. The tank is a 10 gallon and is glass. In the tank is 10 pds of LS a rock and some tank decorations that we bought for them to hide in. The rock is not a LR. The salt that we used is Insta Ocean ( I think). There is a Terta whisper 10 gallon air pump, bubble wall, tetra shisper power filter for 5-15 gallon aquariums, 50 watt hydor (?) all glass aquarium heater. The hood is a 20" aquarium reflector,fluorescent, 120 vlotz, 19 watts. I hope this is making scense, we don't have any of the boxes so I'm writing down what the stuff says on it.
Trust me I know what you mean about impulse buying, thats how we ended up with a jet ski, motorcyle, dirt bike and a new car once. All which were sold once my daughter came along. As for impulse on the fish, my hubby made the mistake of telling daughter that she could get a nemo fish instead of another betta and didn't realize that nemo fish are salt water fish. So that's how we ended up getting into it. I don't mind and am ready for the challenge as I have always loved salt water fish. After watching my daughter and son laughing last night watching the crazy damsels I'll do what I have to. I just need some good info on what to change, what to add, what to leave alone. I really want this tank to work. Between the info we got at lfs, books and here I have been a little overloaded. I think I'm just going to ask advice from you guys from now on.
Thank you all for your help

 

[dragonladylea]

Okay I would get some liverock I only use liverock and a skimmer on my tank, so I don't know anything about the filters you have but someone here on the boards will be able to help with that. Also, check in your area for other lfs - you might be able to trade the coral banded shrimp in for store credit. If you aren't doing water changes you will need to start doing these once a week 10% using ro water. What kind of test kit did you get and what tests does it include? You will need to test your water frequently until its cycled. Don't buy anything else until the water is cycled - Nemo will have to wait for awhile.

 

[william c]

do not do not do not..... get live rock for a small fish only tank the rock carries parasites and other things that will give you nothing but trouble your setup is fine for a tank that size with the lil power filter you will be fine...

 

[promisetbg]

Originally Posted by damzel_grl
glass. In the tank is 10 pds of LS a rock and some tank decorations that we bought for them to hide in. The rock is not a LR. The salt that we used is Insta Ocean ( I think). There is a Terta whisper 10 gallon air pump, bubble wall, tetra shisper power filter for 5-15 gallon aquariums, 50 watt hydor (?) all glass aquarium heater. The hood is a 20" aquarium reflector,fluorescent, 120 vlotz, 19 watts. I hope this is making scense, we don't have any of the boxes so I'm writing down what the stuff says on it.

Ok..where to start.Welcome is the first thing I will say!

Ok..now let's try to fix what is wrong with your set-up.
Colored or otherwise what is considered freshwater decorations cannot be used in saltwater set-ups as the colors can leech chemicals into the tank.Also..the 'rock' that you mentioned..if it is TUFA rock,it needs to go as well,as it has compounds in it again..that can be broken down by saltwater and cause problems. The bubble-wall~ definately take this out! Bubbles are irritating to the gills of SW fish.You will never see a SW set-up with any type of bubbles{intentionally anyway} Bubbles also cause what is called saltcreep.This is when the bubbles pop at the surface of the water..the salt separates from the water,causing a crust of salt to form where it lands.
Here is what you need. Preferably a refractometer,but for now a hydrometer will do to test your SG.{specific gravity}= the amount of salt in the water.
I am going to assume that you started this tank with tapwater.Tapwater is a big no-no in this hobby,as it will cause nothing but algae blooms and troubles,from the heavy metals,etc found in it.
{Whew..I will be right back to tell you the rest.}

 

[sagowitz]

These boards are great but you've still gotta watch out for who you are taking your advice from. William C for instance. I wouldn't recommend the filter you have, penguin bio wheel filters are much better for your little tank. Do not go to ***** anymore, that place is a joke. Look around for better fish stores in your area. Trade in your fish and shrimp to anyone who will take them. It doesn't sound like you've even started your cycle yet, after you've traded in your fish throw a cocktail shrimp in there and that will start your cycle.

 

[promisetbg]

Ok..so what water to use? Obviously you are'nt going to run out and set up a several hundred dollar RO/DI unit at this point.But RO/DI or at least RO water is what you need.There are several sources for this.A good reef based LFS{local fish store} or one with a substantial SW set-up in your area should sell pre-mixed and plain RO/DI water.By the way..this stands for reverse osmosis de-ionized water..and is basicly a clean slate if you will..you add the salt mix or buy pre-mixed and you are good to go.Tapwater is full of lots of things you don't want in your tank.Another option for RO water is at your local grocer or Wal-mart there should be a machine that dispenses water into jugs that you bring.The cost of the water per gal is usually under .50 a gal.
I just woke up from a nap and a bad headache,so bare with me while I go get a cup of coffee..and then on to the rest of the story.

 

[promisetbg]

Research and patience are the two most important aspects to this hobby that you will need to learn at this point.How old is your daughter? From the looks of the photo..she looks old enough to understand why at this point it will be best for the tank inhabitants if you return them until your tank is ready.Especially for the shrimp,as he won't be able to live in the condition this tank is going to be in for the next several weeks to maybe even over a month.
The tank MUST cycle before fish or inverts are added.Some will suggest to you to use the damsels as sacrificial lambs for the cycle,but this is cruel and unnecessary.
The sand that you have sounds fine,but I recommend that you get several LBS. of live rock to begin your cycle and to filter your tank.LR[live rock] is much better and more efficient at removing and breaking down the ammonia to nitrite,then to nitrate.
I must disagree with the suggestion to use a bio-wheel filter.Again,they are for freshwater set-ups and not recommended for use in this hobby.

 

[promisetbg]

Just to give you an idea of what can be accomplished..this is my 12 gal nano cube.It's only filtration is live rock,live sand, and a small piece of Magnavore pura filter pad that is rinsed religiously every day.It has a maxi jet 900 powerhead for circulation...and that is it! All those who go out and purchase all kinds of filtration items are making a grave mistake.It is'nt needed and only causes problems with high nitrates and phosphates in the future.In this case simple is better.