Plumbing Help

saltygerman

saltygerman

Member
Hello all. I have stumbled on to a new 240 gal tank. This is my first drilled tank with 4 holes (two in each overflow). I have an inline pump and need help on plumbing. Just wondered if I could get some guidance from you "drilled tank experts". LOL.
Thank You in advance.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Will you be using a sump? For the overflows, one hole is to drain and the other is for the return. If they are different sizes then the smaller one is for the return.
Plumbing is much different if you're planning on a sump so let us know.
 
S

saxman

Guest
Did you have specific questions or concerns? There are a few good tank plumbers here, so i'd say any question you ask will be answered.
Are you going to use rigid PVC with glued connections or flexible tubing?
Will you be using a submersible or external return pump? What model?
Are we talking glass tank and glass sump or acrylic?
Will you be using the two "stock" returns, or will you be adding any "over the back" or closed-loop returns?
 
saltygerman

saltygerman

Member
I will be using rigid pvc into a 55 gal glass tank converted into a sump, I will be running an external pump. The pump model is Pan World NH100PX. The 240 gal tank is glass. I would like to just use the stock returns. I'm sorry to be slow on providing info. Just looking on doing this right the first time.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Is the sump drilled? I would advise doing this before getting started.
I would plumb the two overflows directly to the sump and keep them seperate. I use a durso style plumbing inside the overflow to reduce noise.
The return is a little more complicated. You're going to have to split the return somewhere after the pump. I recommend ball valves and true unions before and after the pump before the return is split.
Sump - ball valve - union - pump - union - ball valve - split.
This allows you to easily remove the pump for maintenance or replacement.
Optionally, some hobbiests add an additional split that returns directly back to the sump. This can be handy if the pump exceeds your overflow capacity or if you just want to slow down the flow in the tank for feeding or something.
Be sure there is some form of anti-siphon for the return where it goes into the tank. This can be an anti-siphon valve or a hole drilled into the return near the waterline. All this does if prevent water from filling up and overflowing your sump if the pump shuts off (power outage, circuit breaker, etc.) I prefer the hole drilled in the return. I drill it so the a small jet of water comes out pointing into the water just barely below the water line in the tank.
 
saltygerman

saltygerman

Member
Thanks Bang Guy. Can you elaborate on Durso style, also I hadn't planned on drilling the sump. I thought I could gravity feed into the filter socks in the first compartment of the sump?
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
You can certainly gravity feed the overflow to the sump, that's the right way to do it.
Drilling will allow you to connect the return pump to the sump. It is possible to plumb the pump to the sump without drilling it but this will restrict the intake somewhat and that's not good for the pump.
I'll take a picture of my overflow when I get a chance. I'm sure you can google it to come up with a picture though.
 
S

saxman

Guest
Better yet...here's an article on how to DIY a Durso-style standpipe:
http://www.lionfishlair.com/DIY/standpipe.shtml
Note that we no longer use the strainer on the intake, however, it is shown in the article.
BTW, that's not much pump for a 240 gal tank...I'd consider running a SCWD and alternating the flow rather than splitting it 100% of the time. FWIW, I'm running a Pan World PX-200 on our 210 (which is a foot shorter than your 240), PLUS a ReeFlo Dart as a closed-loop. The Pan World returns thru a SCWD and the Dart is thru a 4-way Oceans Motions. The Pan World is "just enuff" flow IMHO. This setup is a FOWLR tank.
 
saltygerman

saltygerman

Member
Thanks Saxman. Very Informative. I was worried I my not have enough pump. I have decided to drill the 55 that I will be using as the Sump. Rather than the over the edge feed to the pump. Do you have any links for a system drawing or pic where I can add additional closed loop pump. I plan on a Reef Tank. But all the plumbing is making my head hurt. Looking thru threads but alot of pics have been deleted. Here is a pic I am building stand and canopy from Red Oak.
 
S

saxman

Guest
Here are some photos of one of the builds we did (48" 100 gal):
Holes labelled:

Backside, showing external overflow box:

Plumbed (dual drain hoses omitted):

Filled:

For the build we're just finishing up (a 210 gal peninsula tank), the CL returns (four of them) come in thru the bottom of the tank and are alternated via a Oceans Motions 4-way...I may have some shots showing them,,,I'll look.
 
S

saxman

Guest
Here's the plan I drew for my tankmaker (1/4" = 3"):

If you look at the "top view", you can see that I "zig-zagged" the CL returns in the tank bottom. Most of the works for this tank are plumbed thru the outside wall and into a 6.5' x 6' equipment shed, altho the CL pump is beneath the stand.
The tank is up and cycling while we do a few tweaks and get all of the equipment up and running (BTW, that blue spot isn't a damsel...it's a reflection of the clock on the microwave):

 
saltygerman

saltygerman

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/393207/plumbing-help#post_3496383
Did you have specific questions or concerns? There are a few good tank plumbers here, so i'd say any question you ask will be answered.
Are you going to use rigid PVC with glued connections or flexible tubing?
Will you be using a submersible or external return pump? What model?
Are we talking glass tank and glass sump or acrylic?
Will you be using the two "stock" returns, or will you be adding any "over the back" or closed-loop returns?
Well here is an update. After alot of research and input from Saxman and Bangguy, here is were we stand. I will be drilling the 55 gallon glass tank as to not restrict the pump any more than necessary. I am going to be adding an addition to the Pan World NH 100px, to use in a closed loop. I am looking for suggestions for a good pump, and keep in mind cash is an issue. After spending $120 on pvc fittings, ball valves, check valves and etc..... I will of course keep some of these but will be switching to flexible tubing wherever possible. I still would like to stick with the 2 stock returns and avoid any Hang ons. Will definately have to do alot more reading on closed loop design.
 
S

saxman

Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltygerman http:///t/393207/plumbing-help#post_3497053
BTW. Nice pics Saxman I am definately a visual learner and they helped me tremendously.
You're welcome...Renee (my partner in crime) is also very visually-oriented, which I suppose, is partially why we seem to have a photo for everything.
If you run with flex tubing and threaded connections, be sure to add plenty of teflon tape to the joints, as they seem to require "more than you'd think". I also use black thickwall tubing (IIRC, Lee's is the brand) to cut down on algae growth in the ID of the tubing, and let's face it, black is sexy!
As for pumps, I'm guessing you still want to run an external?
 
saltygerman

saltygerman

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/393207/plumbing-help#post_3497217
You're welcome...Renee (my partner in crime) is also very visually-oriented, which I suppose, is partially why we seem to have a photo for everything.
If you run with flex tubing and threaded connections, be sure to add plenty of teflon tape to the joints, as they seem to require "more than you'd think". I also use black thickwall tubing (IIRC, Lee's is the brand) to cut down on algae growth in the ID of the tubing, and let's face it, black is sexy!
As for pumps, I'm guessing you still want to run an external?
I would prefer an external
 
S

saxman

Guest
Pretty much any of the pumps I'd consider for a 240 are in the $300 range (give or take) if you get them new. However, there are lots of used pumps out there if peeps will part them out or are simply selling them off.
Probably the quietest external we're running is an Iwaki MD40RLT, which only puts out 750 gph, but works well on a 3-return CL (that 100 gal in the photos). It also runs very cool, as it has an internal fan. You could go with the American motor model WMD40RLXT and gain some flow (1200 gph) as well as save about $50 as long as your head loss is low.
The ReeFlow Dart is quiet as heck too and puts out a lot of water as long as your head loss is low. I was lucky enuff to find a used one a few years ago, and bought it with a large setup in mind...only cost me $125.
Little Giant makes nice solid pumps, but the size you want is a tad on the loud side...not horrible, but it is the loudest part of that setup. The pump model is 4-MDQX-SC (1325 gph @ 1'). I also have a 3-MDQX-SC running on another setup, and it's pretty much dead quiet, so I assume the difference is in the pump size.
If you can find a Poseidon PS4 Titanium pump, they're supposed to be ultra quiet, but will heat your water 4*F - 6*F.
Sicce makes really quality pumps, but they're pricy. You could go with a Syncra Silent 5.0 (1320 gph, can be used submersible or in-line) or one of the High Flow pumps (the Syncra 10 is 2500 gph). I've quit using MJ's in favor of the Syncra Silent line...they're dead quiet and draw less power.
I'm sure there will be other recommendations...
 
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