Plumbing pipes and sizes for sump and return.

N

nyc joe

Guest
First post ever... yea!
forgive the ignorance.
Just got a 60 gal cube tank from marineland.
24"x 24" x 24" and it is reef ready.
starting a seahorse tank and am in the process of rounding up supplies.
I would like to build a sump.
this part i dont really need help with. did countless hours of search already.
I am more or less confused with the piping situation.
I have 2, 1.5 inch bulkheads drilled already with an overflow built inside the tank.
they are one on top of the other.
the lower one is the return.
my question is,
1. if i have a 1.5 inch threaded bulkhead pre-installed. can i use pvc pipe or PVC threaded 1.5 inch pipe from Lowes or Home Depot, in the plumbing section at drains. Most kitchen sink P traps are plumbed at 1.5inch. I should be able to make a nice clean all threaded connection with undersink parts instead of fighting with glues or clamps and joints. with silicone re-inforcement for just in case.
2. Is it OK if all the piping is 1.5 inch? or should i put a reducer somewhere along the way?
3. coming out of the bulkhead ( at the tank), can i use a 90 deg. pipe. Go down about 40 inches then another 90 deg. into the sump, or would that be too violent?
( i want to keep noise down to a min.)
3a. or coming out of the bulkhead ( at the tank), can i use a 90 deg. pipe. Go down about 40 inches then use a 45 deg.? to cut down on splashing etc.
3b. what can i use to cut down on splashing (noise) when the water goes down to the first chamber?
Ok so now water goes through the sump, etc, etc,. and were up to the return.
I have ordered a mag 7 for the return and i hear they are great pumps.
4. is that too much flow for the seahorsies? 550 @ 5'
if so, i can always change it out as its still in the box.
the return to the tank.
what does one use to do that, simple as it seems, i can find anything on it.
5. On the return,
Do i use option 3, or 3a? plastic PVCpiping
or do i just use a hose of some sort?
6. what thickness do i use? I have to have it return to the 1.5 inch bulkhead.
7. also anything else that I may have missed. ( some sort of gadget that threads to the bulkhead, then attaches hose, somehow?
Thank you and I appreciate your time reading through this.
T.I.A.
-Joe
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
Welcome! I'm delighted to see you've done some research on your own. See comments below.
Originally Posted by NYC Joe
http:///forum/post/3128387
I have 2, 1.5 inch bulkheads drilled already with an overflow built inside the tank.
they are one on top of the other.
the lower one is the return.
What do you mean "one on top of the other?" Can you post a picture?
1. if i have a 1.5 inch threaded bulkhead pre-installed. can i use pvc pipe or PVC threaded 1.5 inch pipe from Lowes or Home Depot, in the plumbing section at drains. Most kitchen sink P traps are plumbed at 1.5inch. I should be able to make a nice clean all threaded connection with undersink parts instead of fighting with glues or clamps and joints. with silicone re-inforcement for just in case.
Yes you can use ordinary 1.5" pipe. Bulkheads are either SLIP or Threaded, most are SLIP. In this case, you just cement the pipe right into the bulkhead. The threads around the outside of the bulkhead are for the locknut, they do not fit any standard plumbing fittings.
If you have slip bulkheads and want to use threads, you can either change out the bulkheads or glue a male adapter to the fitting with a short nip-ple of pipe.
2. Is it OK if all the piping is 1.5 inch? or should i put a reducer somewhere along the way?
You are lucky to have nice big bulkheads. The drain pipes I'd keep at 1.5" as long as you have the luxury of those large bulkheads. My 180g tank has two measly 1" bulkheads for drains, so you're a lucky duck.
3. coming out of the bulkhead ( at the tank), can i use a 90 deg. pipe. Go down about 40 inches then another 90 deg. into the sump, or would that be too violent?
( i want to keep noise down to a min.)
3a. or coming out of the bulkhead ( at the tank), can i use a 90 deg. pipe. Go down about 40 inches then use a 45 deg.? to cut down on splashing etc.
3b. what can i use to cut down on splashing (noise) when the water goes down to the first chamber?
3a is what I'd do.
Ok so now water goes through the sump, etc, etc,. and were up to the return.
I have ordered a mag 7 for the return and i hear they are great pumps.
4. is that too much flow for the seahorsies? 550 @ 5'
if so, i can always change it out as its still in the box.>
They are great pumps indeed.
There are some seahorse folks here that can answer the flow question, hopefully they'll join in.
As for flow, if it turns out to be too much, you can install a ball valve on the output of the pump to reduce the flow. You can reduce the flow of these pumps significantly (even down to 25% should be safe). Just do NOT install a valve on the intake.
the return to the tank.
what does one use to do that, simple as it seems, i can find anything on it.
5. On the return,
Do i use option 3, or 3a? plastic PVCpiping
or do i just use a hose of some sort?
6. what thickness do i use? I have to have it return to the 1.5 inch bulkhead.
If you have a second 1.5" bulkhead you want to use, I'd put reducers on either side to reduce to 3/4", and use either 3/4" soft vinyl hose or PVC pipe to go from the pump to the return.
Hows that for starters?
 
shookbrad

shookbrad

Member
Ok so now water goes through the sump, etc, etc,. and were up to the return.
I have ordered a mag 7 for the return and i hear they are great pumps.
4. is that too much flow for the seahorsies? 550 @ 5'
if so, i can always change it out as its still in the box.
yes, This is too large. yes you could put a valve to reduce the flow but a mag 7 will add a lot more heat over a Mag 5. If it was my tank I would put a mag 5. I use a Mag 9.5 on my 107G Cylender. It also feeds my phosban reactor and I still have too much flow and had to throudle the return back with a valve and this tank has agressive fish not sea horses which like low flow.
Also, if you use the mag5 and decide you need more flow you can put an accelerator on the return part in the tank. I put one of those on my 240 and can not believe the amount of water movement now. I am considering replacing my pumps with smaller ones it increased the flow so much. Here is what I am talking about.
 
N

nyc joe

Guest
What do you mean "one on top of the other?" Can you post a picture?
cant post pix now, but ill try my best to explain,..
one bulkhead is near the top of the tank. ( downpipe)
the other is about 2 inches lower than this one (return)
It would almost make sense to stagger them as your going to have pipes coming down. just like these dots :
So im going to use cement to glue them on.
any cement?
- Ill just make sure its cured before actually attaching.
any thing that may exist to cut down on splashing?
when the water comes down in to the sump, do you want to drill holes at the absolute bottom or anything to help with flow?
-The mag 5 or 7 it is. ill find a ball valve
-for the return, i will reduce to 3/4.
should i reduce it near the tank higher?
or should i reduce it near the sump, lower?
or does it even matter?
and this sounds dumb, but.
how would i attach the return pipe to the pump?
Reason im asking simple questions is, i dont know whats tank safe, and i ONLY want to do this once and right!
Thanx again
-Joe
 
N

nyc joe

Guest
I think this tank came with one of those. (accelerator)
the last piece is thin and wide, to shoot water out. i guess.
a picture is worth a thousand words.
ill have some in not too long.
ok so ill guess maybe a mag 5?
I do have 2 koralia powerheads already too.
a nano, and a one.
both are mixing some saltwater now.
thanx
-Joe
 
jrse7en

jrse7en

Member
"and this sounds dumb, but.
how would i attach the return pipe to the pump?"
I know using metal is bad but is using a metal hose clamp on an in-sump return pump bad too? I'd like to know also.
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by NYC Joe
http:///forum/post/3128549
So im going to use cement to glue them on.
any cement?
- Ill just make sure its cured before actually attaching.
-The mag 5 or 7 it is. ill find a ball valve
-for the return, i will reduce to 3/4.
should i reduce it near the tank higher?
or should i reduce it near the sump, lower?
or does it even matter?
and this sounds dumb, but.
how would i attach the return pipe to the pump?
Any PVC cement will work. It's perfectly safe once cured for aquarium use.
The mag5 and Mag7 will come with 1/2" male threaded output connections. The first thing you'll want to do is buy a 1/2" threaded ball valve, and screw it right onto the pump's output. Simple enough. That'll leave you with a 1/2" female connection, since the ball valve is female on both sides.
Some people use vinyl hose to connect to them. In this case, you'd buy a 1/2" make thread to hose barb connection of the appropriate size. I'd use 5/8" or 3/4" ID hose for this. If you use 3/4", you may need to find a 3/4" barb to 1/2" pipe thread fitting, or make one using PVC fittings and a little hunk of pipe.
Then you'll also buy an appropriate hose barb fitting to go on the back of your other bulkhead. For example, you may buy a 1.5" to 3/4" reducing bushing. Then out of the bushing you'll glue on an elbow, then a male 3/4 adapter, then screw on your 3/4" hose barb fitting.
Finally you'll just slip the hose onto either side. On the pump end, yeah, don't use metal. You can get plastic hose clamps, but I generally just use a nylon tie-wrap (the kind they use to bundle wires and such). Since the pump is sitting in the sump, the connection need not be completely water-tight, as a drip here and there won't hurt anything. On the back of the tank, I'd use a stainless steel hose clamp.
The other way is to use pvc pipe. This is my favorite because IMO it looks cleaner. In this case, I'd use 3/4" pipe. Out of the pump/valve you'll use a 1/2" male thread (MIP) to 3/4" SLIP male adapter. Come out of that with a short piece of pipe then into a PVC union. This will allow you to remove the pump for maintenance.
Then just use the necessary elbows and such to get to the bulkhead. On the bulkhead, you can use a 1.5" to 3/4" threaded bushing. Then thread in a male adapter and solvent your pipe connection in place. I suggest a threaded bushing only so that you can take the piping apart at a later time if you change something. With a slip bushing, you'd lose the bulkhead and pipe if you ever wanted to change it and have to replace it, but threaded allows you to remove the entire pipe and replace it with something different at a later time.
... of course be sure to use teflon tape or pipe dope on all threaded connections.
 
N

nyc joe

Guest
also, is this needed?
i have found check valves that would fit in line on the return.
I am using hard pumbing going back up. no hoses.
i have found mixed review saying they fail, but i dont want to mess up my powerhead.
the overflow that was built in does have a safety on top, via a hole with a little tube built in. so i think this may prevent the tube from getting some back suction.
so do i need it?
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
You need to avoid them, regardless of what you do.
Anyone who says that check valves don't fail hasn't been using them long enough.
 
dive girl

dive girl

Member
On the question of flow, what kind of seahorses are you planning on keeping?
On my H. erectus tank, I used PVC to bring the return back into the tank and by drilling holes into a piece of piping, I made my own spray bar across the back of the tank. That allows me to diffuse the water and get water movement in many different directions. I have areas where my seahorses can get out of any flow if they like. I also see them occasionally hitch right in front of the powerheads and spray bar.
Another word of advice that you may or may not need to follow. I use window screen to cover all my powerheads. I don't ever want to have to feel responsible that one of my seahorses got any part of them caught in any part of the powerhead.
 
N

nyc joe

Guest
dive girl,
any way you can post pics of the spray bar.
and maybe the way you have the powerheads set up?
 
dive girl

dive girl

Member
Here's a photo of my return. The photo also shows my powerheads with the screen covering them. They aren't that pretty but I don't have to worry about my horses getting stuck in them.
 
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