Plumbing

[rapt0r32]

Ok I have a few questions. I decided to go with a little giant pump for the return from my sump. I have a CPR overflow (cs100 rated at 800gph) Now on the threaded ends do you use teflon (only concern was pieces of the teflon getting into my pump) and I have also read not to hard plumb the return. If flexable is used how would you cut down the flow rate incase more was going out than coming into the sump? I should be pretty close on the specs but like everything I know everything needs alittle adjusting. I hope to start my plumbing soon....
Thanks

 

[bingo]

All threaded connections I use teflon on and haven't had any problems, so I would use it. I also agree with using flexible tubing for the drain, which causes less noise, and is just easier to plumb. As for the overflow box, you don't ever need to cut down on the outflow, because the overflow will only drain what is being fed to it. The pump does not need to match your overflow, it just can't pump more than your overflow can handle. With the CPR overflows, run a powerhead with the venturi hooked up to that

[hr]
on the top, they are notorious for breaking siphon otherwise! Good luck...

 

[rapt0r32]

I was actually going to hard pipe the over flow to the sump... It is the pump to the tank I am alittle up in the air about how I want to go handling it.

 

[predator]

Is your tank reef ready? Or are you using a hang on overflow box? If your tank is reef ready then Hard piping the drain is cool. I have my drain hard piped as well. If it's a hang on I would leave the flex hose on it.
For a return I use pvc to the bottom of my tank and then on the other side of the bulk head fitting I hard piped it. I am using lock line to circulate the water. and flex would not work. But so long as your pump is not putting more water in your overflow than it can handle it will be fine.

 

[broomer5]

Hi Rapt0r32
I struggled a little with how to plump my return pump too. ALthough I am using a submersible pump, thought this may give you another view/approach.
I like to use flexible 1" I.D. vinyl tubing for return pump to tank.
It's easy to work with, and allows you to rearrange things down below in or near the sump area if necessary.
Here's a pic.
If you use a PVC union on your pump discharge, it allows you to remove the pump for servicing, without having to jack around with the tubing connections. Just insure it's tight, and leakproof if going external.
Works for me.
<a href="http://communities.msn.com/broomerspics/75refugiumsump.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=43" target="_blank">http://communities.msn.com/broomerspics/75refugiumsump.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=43</a>

 

[rapt0r32]

Hey Broomer,
Thanks for the pics and how you do your sump. I like that pic and how the tubing is run. I have not bought any thing yet because I am still trying to draw a mental pic of how I am going to do this.
I read a post of yours awhile back on how you use flex from your overflow to your sump. I have read that alot of people do that because of noise issue as well. Any truth to that? I like the flex idea because, like you said you are able to service everything rather than if you hard piped it. And with 10 years of Auto Parts behind me I know EVERYTHING breaks. I am even finding that to be true now that I am in Tech support for Internet. I did do alittle shopping yesterday on PVC and fittings but most mom and pop stores dont carry the 1 inch thread that I need (they only carry bigger)
I am looking at your spray bar and it appears to be pretty flawless ( not that I know anything about those )
Also one more question.. When dumping into your sump you have anything to keep the noise down? I can think of better things to listen to than 800 gallons an hour pouring down into there while I am trying to watch TV.
Thanks again
Raptor

 

[broomer5]

Rapt0r32
Thanks !
I think the flexible hose is much easier to use than hard pipe PVC for the external overflow drain. If you don't like it, you can move it.
If you need to work on stuff, you can swing it out of your way. I am cramped for real estate under my tank as it is, so I gotta use the flex.
Does it reduce noise better than PVC pipe. I dunno, it sure allows you to make some adjustments to how the water returns to the sump, and so far, I've always had to fiddle with the right exact way to position it, to reduce noise and bubbles. That's one of the advantages I see to using flex too.
I felt the spray bar was a good idea, but a poor design. My fault - I just started putting fittings together without considering a few more things I want. It works good, and allows me to redirect 3 channels of water in most any direction. But I want more - so I'll be heading off to the Depot for some more fittings - and will redo it soon.
What I'm doing is using the MagDrive 9.5 for my main return, and branch off of it to my refugium.
I got a digital timer today, that I programmed 14 on/off durations, and have a Rio2100 plugged into it.
The Rio runs to a single spraybar at the opposite end of the tank - and comes on and off to change circulation patterns. Not a Wavemaker my any means, but adds a little boost to the water circulation regardless.
When we watch TV or read in this room, I run the Rio by itself, and the refugium has a small heater and powerhead that keep it fresh and warm.
Still tinkering as you can see .....
Dumping water into the sump - you have to mess with it and get it just so. I've got the drain flwx return running down to sump, and hard piped a straight 6 inch piece of PVC and a 45 degree elbow - water sort of shoots out at the surface and does not create many bubbles at all.
So far

 

[rapt0r32]

Broomer,
Thanks for all the info. I will keep it all in mind. From what it seems, it appears the route you have taken is a very good one. I did alot of reading on the net and I wasnt really sure, but after reading how you have yours done I feel alittle bit better about this project. I will have to come up with something for my spraybar because I dont want to use alot of powerheads because of the looks. I know I am going to have to use a few of them incase I have any dead spots in my tank. The sealer should be fully cured by tonight so hopefully I will be able to fill it with water ( by itself) to make sure I have no leaks of any sorts.
One question on your spray bar. Did you cap off one end so if there was a power loss you would lose suction? And how about a check valve plumbed in would that work?
Jason

 

[broomer5]

Originally I had built the spraybar allowing for two pump supplies, but decided to go with just one main pump. So I capped one of the bottom ones.
Then after getting it installed I realized that most of my flow was taking the least resistance route, and flowed right through the one "open" elbow directly across from the supply leg.
So I capped it on top. That forced water through the flexible nozzles much better and gave me the results I was looking for.
I still kept one white pvc elbow port open, and direct water flow across the surface with it. It being open allows for the siphon to break upon power loss. If I had not done this, or drilled a hole in the piping somewhere near or just below the water surface, the water would drain down in the main tank until it reached the black flex openings. My sump not that big <img src="graemlins//eek.gif" border="0" alt="[eek]" />
As I mentioned - good idea, poor initial design. Plan to redo it "right" probably next weekend or when the weather warms up for some garage gluing PVC work.
Swing check valves I would use, but I don't care for ball check valves. Most ball checks have a metal spring, not all, most, so I avoid that. Swing checks can get hung up and dirty, so I don't use them either. I would not 100% rely on a check valve to save my floors from a flood. A drilled hole or open port on the spraybar is a better approach IMO. I've seen check valves fail, although I am not against using them as redundant insurance.
Yesterday I removed the Rubbermaid lid I had planned to use and hung the refugium lighting instead. Too much hassle messing with the lid under there and the lighting works better now.
I added a couple more pics last night.
Wish ya luck and have fun Rapt0r32 !!!
Later

 

[rapt0r32]

Broomer,
Thanks for all the advice. I only have a 30 gallon sump but I figure it should do for my 125. I am getting real restless on getting it set up and running again.
I read about drilling a hole and I already made a mental note to do that on the bar. I too would rather have water in my sump and tank rather than on the floor.
Thanks again for all the advice.......
Jason

 

[rapt0r32]

Broomer,
I like how that refugium is done. I have a question. I see the output is to the top of the refugium. Is this how the sump is to be done as well?
This is the reason I ask... I took a 30 gallon rubbermaid cut a hole on the end near the bottom because that was the flattest part of the end. I then took a shower drain with screen for my output (which has rubber seals to help seal) then I also put sealer on the inside and outside of the rubbermaid.
Should the output be higher?
Just was wondering
BTW: I like your site and pics it helps me to see what you are talking about and give me some ideas for myself as well...
jason <img src="graemlins//confused.gif" border="0" alt="[confused]" />

 

[broomer5]

jason,
Not 100% I follow you on that last Q.
The refugium has two 1" bulkhead fittings near the top of the container. Water is pumped in, and rises up, just falls out each bulkhead hole into my sump, maintaining the level in the refugium at that point.
As long as I keep the flow down into the refugium, I don't fear the thing overflowing.
If the hole is at the bottom, what will prevent the thing from overflowing ? You'll need to restrict the flow into the refugium no matter where the hole is, and as a matter of fact, having the hole in the bottom will have more flow due to the head pressure above this hole, from the weight of the water above it. That's not a bad thing at all, just a different approach.
The one thing I would hesitate doing is the shower drain thing you described. Is this part made of metal ??? and a screen metal too ??
IMO it's better to avoid all metal parts from being exposed to the saltwater. Both for corroision of the metal, but more importantly for having ill affects on the sea critters.
Can you describe your sump/refugium a little more - does one flow into the other, or are they hardpiped together ???
EDIT: I just re-read the beginning of this thread and see where you said hardpipe.
Brian

 

[rapt0r32]

Broomer,
Sorry if I confused you there. I get a rambling and don't stop. As for the shower drain it has one metal part. that would be the screen itself. If it would be better to take it off I will. otherwise it is made completely from PVC. As for the refugium, that isn't made quite yet. I didn't want to start to many projects, as I am still trying to figure out piping for the return. And to answer the question about hard piped. Nothing is piped yet. No materials have been bought. I was wanting some input on a different route so I wouldn't have to hard pipe it ( I wasnt to fond of that idea.) I could see on a refugium you have the holes high so it wouldn't overflow onto floor. But with a sump wouldn't it over flow wither the hole was up high or down low depending on the size of the ext. Pump. I do have a CPR cs100 ( 800 gallons ) and a Little Giant 4 to try to keep up. If my digital camera wasnt out of batteries I would snap a couple pics for you.
Jason