Popeye

elfdoctors

Active Member
I finally tore apart my reef yesterday. I have a very timid sebae clown that I was unable to catch any other way. (It was replaced by a pair of aquacultured perculas that I purchased over 2 months ago from swf.com - already they are much more visible than the sebae ever was.) At the same time I moved my heater down to my sump.
This morning, my heniochus butterfly has popeye. Attached is the best picture I could get. (The fish moves around too much!)While I had the reef apart I did a large ~30% water change because my nitrates had been drifting upward (to ~15-20). The fish is still eating well this morning.
I have two questions for anyone, but am particularly interested in Beth's opinion.
1) Can you just assume that trauma played a role. If so and considering that the water quality should have improved with the large water change, is any further treatment necessary? I put some garlic into the tank this morning.
2) Shortly after I moved this fish from the quarantine tank (~4 months ago), it had a disease that I assumed was fin and tail rot, which I assumed was related to trauma. I treated that with garlic also and it has healed. (But you will notice that the top fin and the tail fin are still somewhat jagged). Beth posted a picture of a similar fish about 10 days ago in a thread started by Roggy23. I thought that was fin and tail rot but someone else thought that it was lymphocystis. Beth - can you enlighten us as to what disease the fish actually had?
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Is it roggy's thread or memmo's? I feel that that kind of fin degenation is due to malnutrition. What are you feeding this fish? Are you taking any special care to feed him with a butterfly food grid? Why are your nitrates running that high in a reef tank? Are you putting garlic in the tank water or on the food? If in the tank, stop doing that.
Well, the first order of business for a fish with popeye is a water change. If that doesn't work, then it will have to go into QT for antibotic treatment.
 

elfdoctors

Active Member
Here's the thread: https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/124763/maracyn-2-killing-my-trigger My fish had something similar on its fins but obviously all the white spots have disappeared but the damage has not healed itself yet. I mentioned that the fin degeneration is getting better. I think that it was brought on from being netted to be moved from the QT to my display. (Similar to the same way that the popeye may have been from trauma from taking apart the reef).
I feed butterfly/angel frozen mix as well as sw plankton (daphnia) in addition to daily seaweed selects (which this fish seems to love). They also get some varying flake foods, formula 1, formula 2 and spirulina. They also occasionally get frozen squid, silversides, brine and mysis shrimp, or artificial crabmeat that my wife likes using in salads.
I am not completely sure where my nitrates are coming from. I may not be changing enough water weekly as it is usually 5-10 gallons/week. I don't have a refugium but am considering one. My nitrates may be coming from my substrate. I have a live sand/cc mix (which I have been happy with - at least the way it looks). However, I think that I need to add more to get the denitrifying action of a DSB. I also may be guilty of occasionally overfeeding. :nervous:
I just did a large water change so I will watch the fish. I'll update the thread as the condition changes.
Thanks for your help. Feel free to message me in AW's if you have specific questions. I am on there more than here as this game is starting to get interesting. I am planning my first hostile attack into a neighboring system.
How do you like your broadband?
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
elf, that picture you are inquiring about in roggy's thread is lymph! And that is a positive ID on that. Thus, that would certainly go along with my thoughts that the fish is suffering nutritional or even environmental problems. Keep in mind that malnutrition does not always mean that the hobbist is at fault with diet. Due to handling, mechanisms used for capture [such as Cyanide], etc fish can suffer irreversible damage. Are you using a butterfly grid for feeding?
 

elfdoctors

Active Member
My fish never had the cauliflower looking growths that I associate with lymphocystis. I saw more bread mold apppearing growths. My fish also had some fin destruction. I am not convinced that my fish had the same disease that was in that picture.
Either way, I am glad that I didn't overtreat (by using antibiotics when they weren't necessary) and that the fish seems to be getting better.
The fish's eye may actually be slightly better already. It certainly isn't getting worse.
I am not familiar with a butterfly grid. I did a quick search and did not find any info. What is this?
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Its a plastic food holder made especially for butterflies. Commonly necessary for needlenosed butterflies, which yours is not really like that. You place the food in the grid and the butterfly, with its needle snout is able to work the food out. Helpful to ensure that butterflies are getting adequate nutrition since nutrition in the aquria is a common issue with these fish and many species just can not feed in the open water column. They just can't harvest enough food from rock nosing, and often will fail to thrive.
Try adding garlic to feedings. Garlic, as you know garlic is an immunse booster as well as it has a natural antibiotic quality to it. You may yet need to treat with M2 if the eye doesn't clear up.
Lypmh...I'll need get some serious pics of fish with lymph up here. :scared:
 

elfdoctors

Active Member
Update:
The fish's eye is back to normal. No antibiotics were necessary. Thanks for your opinions, Beth.
I'll have to try to find a butterfly grid somewhere. My usual online vendor doesn't sell them by that name.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Good news! Keep us posted on any improvement to fin regeneration.
Grid below. You can see by placing the food sandwiched between the 2 grid plates that the neddlenose would then need to work its mouth in there to pull out food. Won't work with flakes, pellets.
 
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