Possible ****** outbreak

[agkistrodo]

Heya all,
I have a 45 gal reef/fish setup that is fully cycled. H2o params are all on the mark. I work for NOAA and have access to full lab setup at the main aqaurium at our facility. In short I know my H20 quality is good. I had no problems in this tank, it was populated with couple damsels, skunk clown, bicolor angel, purpleback pseudo., and a couple of engineer gobies which where the last additions. Shortly after their addition, 7 days- have exact dated records on all my tanks-I notice a few small granular white spots on my angel, within 24 hrs I noticed it on the clown, and another 24 hrs on the pseudochromis. The damsels and engineer gobies were fine at this point. I did notice some scratching on live rock by the angel. These fish seem to clear up, then 7-8 days later again white spots. I have noticed no dinos freeswimming in the tank. during this second episode the angle succombed and the clown and pseudo were removed 2 days later due to their sickly state. * days later I noticed the engineer gobies were covered with spots, at which point they were also removed. Currently there is a dozen turbo snails, 1 cleaner shrimp, and 2 damsels with about 40 lbs of live rock. The damsels have never shown any signs of sickness at all. Could this simply be a nutritional thing I feed only Tetra Marine Flakes, Ocean Nutrition Prime Reef Flakes, and Kent Platinum Reef Herbivore Pellets and sea weed sheets for treats. I am very hesitant to add anymore fish to this tank, but the damsels look great. ANy takers on this one?
AgkistrodonContortrix, Chris

 

[beth]

These fish have ich. Absolutely right, don't add any more fish. Please take a look at the FAQ Thread at the top of this forum, and the post there on ICH. That should explain the whole situation. Post back if you have additional questions. Also, to confirm, there are several pictures of this parasite on fish in the Diseased Fish Thread.
I'm afraid to save these fish, you will need to treat them.

 

[agkistrodo]

My filtration on the 45 is undergravel with power heads, a marineland canister filter wit carbon pack and periodic run of vortex diatom filter.

 

[beth]

Live rocks, inverts? What are you using to measure salinity?
Oh, and welcome to the forums...but sorry a tank crisis is what brought you here.

 

[agkistrodo]

I know some fish are ****** resistant but not sure what species. Does anyone know are Damsels one of them, I have two different species of Damsel. They have shown ZERO signs and no rock rubbing. Also I cannot treat the tank for cryp with inverts/liverock in place, this is a correct interpretation of text I have available, no? Or could this be amylood. These two scurges can look very similar, I guess the tell is a scrape under a scope. The problem is again the damsels are organism free, at least to the eye.

 

[agkistrodo]

Yes sorry, very rude of me, hello all Chris here, Woods Hole MA.
Salinity via h.ydrometer calib@75'. My water is spot on for all params, that is what I don't understand. I do know-well estimate this introduction came with the engineer gobies, I estimate this based on dates and organism cycles.

 

[agkistrodo]

I have a cleaner shrimp, dozens turbo snails, few hermits, and about 40lbs of live rock. This is the crux of the biscuit, if I interpret the text correctly and I thought this was topic in my schooling, can't treat with copper with the inverts and can't move them to another tank cause they may cross contaminate. Sorry for the broken message I thought I included the other occupants.

 

[beth]

Is that hydrometer a plastic swing-arm, or a glass hydrometer?
There are fish that are more hearty than others, such as damsels, but this is a parasite and they will attach to fish in the tank. In the closed system, most fish will eventually succumb. In your situation, you can try at this stage to use heavy garlic feedings. This may prevent an outbreak. Take a look at the instructions on garlic in the FAQ Thread.

 

[agkistrodo]

Glass floater with therm, I use a 1000ml beaker when I test.

 

[agkistrodo]

I guess I should have gone there first, I was wondering why you kept inquiring on h2o params. Temp 78', Sal 20.0, NO3 8.5ppm, NO2 0.0ppm, NH3/NH4 0.18ppm, pH 8.0, TotalAlk 120ppm.

 

[agkistrodo]

What if I remove the remaining finfish and raise temp to 84+ for few weeks? I remember something about that

 

[beth]

Originally Posted by Agkistrodo
What if I remove the remaining finfish and raise temp to 84+ for few weeks? I remember something about that
Are you saying remove the fish? If you remove the fish, and leave the tank fishless, then the ich will die off. But what would you do with the fish? Raiser the temp does not kill the parasite.
Also, you might want to know that the undergravel filter is pretty obsolete. It is known to be an effective filter in completing the nitrogen cycle, thus you see the nitrates.

 

[agkistrodo]

I can put these 2 finfish in quarantine, treat with copper, leave the inverts in the infected tank, three weeks should elimniate the bug, yes? Also you are saying ditch the undergravel? I have been using these for years, I had understood that despite some newage thinking, they are still very efficient filters. Also there is always going to be some NO3's correct, if no NO3's then you are going to have NO2's, or am I mistaken here?

 

[beth]

They are efficient to an extend. You have nitrates don't you? That is the problem. Also, with UGF, you need crushed coral, another nitrate producer and not a good substrate for sand invertebrates.
Yes, you can move the fish to a QT. Think about using hyposalinity. There is info in the FAQ Thread on this procedure.

 

[agkistrodo]

Yes,
I do have crushed coral for substrate in this tank. I have found as long as I keep on the 10% partials I have pretty good water. This is the first time I have had an outbreak of any sort in a tank in probably 16 years, that is why it has surprised me so.