Private Schools and evolutionary theory

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
As some of you regulars know... I am in school to be a Biology teacher. Currently, I am taking a class that requires me to go to many different types of schools and observe many different grade levels. I had the opportunity to observe a Biology class at a Christian private school.

During the lecture, the teacher is discussing the basic parts of a flower and their functions. A student asked, "but how have flowers become so specialized?"

Now, this is where I dive into a discussion about evolution - convergent evolution, genetics, cohabitation, speciation, geologic time scales etc. etc.

The teacher in this Christian private school, whom I hope has been taught something about evolution says "Flowers are not a product of evolution, but designed by God for many different purposes."

Jaw dropped.

Are private school kids at a disadvantage when it comes to the sciences? Would you want your child to be taught evolution? Would you want your child to know evolutionary theory and explain it as...you want your child to know that God invented evolution and his time is different from ours. I don't know what I would have said to this man, given the opportunity.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
As some of you regulars know... I am in school to be a Biology teacher. Currently, I am taking a class that requires me to go to many different types of schools and observe many different grade levels. I had the opportunity to observe a Biology class at a Christian private school.
During the lecture, the teacher is discussing the basic parts of a flower and their functions. A student asked, "but how have flowers become so specialized?"
Now, this is where I dive into a discussion about evolution - convergent evolution, genetics, cohabitation, speciation, geologic time scales etc. etc.
The teacher in this Christian private school, whom I hope has been taught something about evolution says "Flowers are not a product of evolution, but designed by God for many different purposes."
Jaw dropped.
Are private school kids at a disadvantage when it comes to the sciences? Would you want your child to be taught evolution? Would you want your child to know evolutionary theory and explain it as...you want your child to know that God invented evolution and his time is different from ours. I don't know what I would have said to this man, given the opportunity.
What was the age group?
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Teachers are probably hired who have the same beliefs as the Christian school, and hopefully the parents are aware of this and approve. Even so, if they want to seek higher ed in biology as adults, they will have a difficult time catching up to science. However, private schools still need to meet government standards, so I'm not sure how that is handled.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Can't necessarily teach evolution properly in that kind of environment though. Sure, you can do the basics and then the teachers tone of voice can completely slaughter the idea. I know of a lot of kids that come into biology classrooms at my local college who try to argue against evolution with the professors there. What's so hard to believe about evolution? I don't necessarily believe that it rules out that there is a God... I just don't believe that God created everything in seven days and only 5,000 years ago.

I had a christian student tell me one time a while ago that God created the bones in the ground and that dinosaurs were never alive, but they are designs in rocks.
 

silverado61

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/396331/private-schools-and-evolutionary-theory#post_3531027
Can't necessarily teach evolution properly in that kind of environment though. Sure, you can do the basics and then the teachers tone of voice can completely slaughter the idea. I know of a lot of kids that come into biology classrooms at my local college who try to argue against evolution with the professors there. What's so hard to believe about evolution? I don't necessarily believe that it rules out that there is a God... I just don't believe that God created everything in seven days and only 5,000 years ago.

I had a christian student tell me one time a while ago that God created the bones in the ground and that dinosaurs were never alive, but they are designs in rocks.


They say that God has been around since.... forever. Then maybe his calender is different then ours. Maybe his 1 day is a 100 years or 1,000 years, or even 100,000 years to us. If that's the case, then evolution would maybe fit into the God theory because 5,000 years to Him would be like 50 million years to us. But what do I know? I'm Agnostic, so I believe in Science. I believe evolution is adaptation and it runs at it's own pace and direction in each species. I believe there was one organism that started after the "Big Bang" and as this organism formed in different climates, it adapted differently according to their environments and went off in separate directions and as such, evolved into different life forms and BAM! Here we are today. But again, what do I know?
 

darthtang aw

Active Member

They say that God has been around since.... forever. Then maybe his calender is different then ours. Maybe his 1 day is a 100 years or 1,000 years, or even 100,000 years to us. If that's the case, then evolution would maybe fit into the God theory because 5,000 years to Him would be like 50 million years to us. But what do I know? I'm Agnostic, so I believe in Science. I believe evolution is adaptation and it runs at it's own pace and direction in each species. I believe there was one organism that started after the "Big Bang" and as this organism formed in different climates, it adapted differently according to their environments and went off in separate directions and as such, evolved into different life forms and BAM! Here we are today. But again, what do I know?
:))):
What caused " the big bang"?
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
The same thing that caused the existence of God?

Answers to which we will never know in our lifetime.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Actually the creationist believers have a theory, and it's just as valid as evolutionists. It isn't just "God did it". Example: They explain the Grand canyon, and how it points to a fast run off (Noah's flood story) as opposed to thousands of years...both are theories, neither is fact.

Most folks who opt to pay for private "Christian" schooling, do so because they don't want their children to believe in evolution. Catholic schools teach Catechism, then the Protestants wanted their kids to be taught Godly stuff, but not from THAT church.... so they started their own, or they home school.

Snake...When you visit a house, you must respect the host of that house. Since it was a Christian private school..it should have been a major clue on their point of view. As I understand what you posted...you were supposed to observe, not argue your personal point of view. You were not the teacher, so you should not have "dived" in and started answering the child's question. Doing so may jeopardize the opportunity to observe for others, concerning future visits from your school.

As to your question about how I would want my kids taught...I'm so glad I'm an old lady with no school age kids. I allowed my kids to learn from public education, and anything concerning evolution that I considered crap, I was quick to explain to MY children
why I thought it was crap, and explained to them what a THEORY was, and why it wasn't FACT. It's just two opposing ideas.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Flower, I am so glad you can read and take out contextual information from the text, it lets me know that you are smart enough to interpret exactly what you read out of your books.

If you read my original post, you would have known that I acted professionally and just observed the teacher. I'm not allowed to speak in the classroom, guide, teach, nor interact with students. Hence: observations.

I know that I should have been prepared for having God and religion in a science classroom, but not everything in this world, especially in Science, can be answered simply "because God created it to be so." That eliminates curiosity, intelligence, and thought and replaces it with ignorance.
 

deejeff442

Active Member
i will say this.being a firefighter i have seen people walk away from wrecks that they should be dead. but i have also seen minor stuff where we put them in bodybags. my good friends grand daughter who is 5 yrs old has stage 4 brain cancer. i am on the fence if there is a god. and if there is he is a prick. crimanils are healthy anda 5 yr. old dies? dont give me that he has a plan stuff ..i bont buy it.i have talked to plenty of people of cloth and always get the same answer ...its gos plan.. yea dont think so
 

mantisman51

Active Member
Query: James Hutton(in the 1790's) came up with the "millions and millions of years ago" and the time frame and names for the different evolutionary eras. He had no scientific proof (and don't say "observation" because he didn't live 6.5 billion years-don't be silly) yet all evolutionists today use his theories and time frames. Why?
Query: Is there 1 single scientifically proven species to species evolution(macro evolution).
Query: Can carbon dating be reliably used to date further back than 5000-6000 years?
Query: Can anyone find 1 single example of creation scientists claiming bones in the ground are "rocks created by God"?
Query: Has it been scientifically proven that "Lucy" (the supposed oldest known pre-human) was tampered with to make the skull look less human?

Finally, can anyone here find one piece of "evidence" supporting evolution that DOESN'T depend on "scientists think" or "which leads scientists to think..."? I know the answer to ALL of these questions and I also know that there isn't 1 single piece of scientifically proven data that can prove evolution beyond speculation and theory. Yet true believers say creationists have no scientific reliability? As the Brits say, "Good on you". They are the perfect dupes. And no you can't be a Christian or devout Jew and believe in evolution. In the Law and Prophets and the New Testament we are told the scripture is true and infallible. Believe it all or believe none. According to the Scripture there is no in-between.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Q1: I'm not a geologist, and can not accurately defend such a question. However, I know that Hutton was only the first person to come up with the theory of a geologic time scale. He proposed a school of thought called uniformitarianism, which means that basic physics and chemistry has acted upon the Earth since it's creation, and in that time, physical and chemical forces have acted upon the face of the Earth causing change. His work has actually been built upon by several other scientists and naturalists, including Playfair, Lyell and Darwin. The Hutton view of the geologic time scale was way too long, but since observation (Ex: Niagra Falls studies of erosion.) and other studies, we have come to know a lot more accurate time period in which things have occurred.

Q2: Science is not common sense. Science is always open to questions, and not set in it's ways. Let me get that clear. Macroevolution - there's a lot of ways to discuss it. Would you like to go into speciation, genetics, phylogeny? Look at the example of the evolution of a whale. It's perhaps one of the most well documented macroevolution in the geologic time scale. What was once a four legged mammal living on land, lived close to the sea and over time genes were selected for ocean-dwelling and less for land-dwelling. You can clearly see the changes through time if you care to research it. Macroevolution takes a very long time - from getting a horse like creature to look like a whale. It's not like a horse gives birth to a whale... A species in and of it'self is just that, a species. Humans are not apes, but cousins to apes. Species, over time, through speciation, and natural selection, and countless broods, can give rise to a new species.

Q3: I am not a chemist or a mathematician, nor am I versed in this field of Science. Do you want a specific date, 6001 years ago? Carbon dating is a simple question of math. Carbon 14 has a certain half life. (I looked it up, it's 5,730 years, +-40.) There are other isotopes out there that also have specific half lives - which is part of Radiometric dating. Radiometric dating is actually what is used to determine geologic time scales. Radometric dating has a standard deviation of a few thousand years, but when your looking at things that date back millions, or hundreds of millions of years old, that's pretty accurate. As I said, it's a simple question of math. However, scientists can not say that a rock was formed January 17th, 3,482,294,213BC.

Q4: Excuse me, did you just put these two words together: Creation Scientists? Boy, that's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. This is just what a student said to me a long time ago when I was being taught at a Christian High School. Again, please read and actually understand in context what is being said.You must be a liberal? As for the question, I'm not going to entertain it.

Q5: I'm familiar with Lucy, but I can not answer the question definitively. However, oldest or not, there are still MANY authentic cases of human evolution out there. Australopithecus africanensus, Homo habilis, H. erectus, H rudolfensis, neanderthals, and so on. By basic science, scientific methods, radiocarbon dating, and anthropology, you can clearly see distinctions and gradual differences of specimens that have evolved into what we are today.

Scientists think all the time. Gravity was thought up by Newton, but he didn't invent it. He put a name to a natural force in the world. Einstein came up with the theory of relativity to explain some of the physics of our world and the universe. I'm pretty sure, I think 2+2=4, but if the liberals have anything to do with Common Core, 2+2 can equal 5 as long as a student can accurately explain how they reached that conclusion. Scientists think, hypothesize, experiment, test, observe, test again, observe some more - Science is for tinkerers, for those people who are constantly curious about the world and the things around them. They don't hide behind religion to explain things that they themselves can't understand, they try to go out and seek the forces behind those actions. If you ever have a heart attack, don't thank the doctors, the nurses, the chemists, the biochemists, the scientists for saving your life... thank God, right?
 

bang guy

Moderator
"Scientifically proven" is a bit of a misnomer since it is not part of the methodology nor the goal of science to prove anything.
 
i think is it time is different than ours he made animals 1st say so in the bible it also says in leviticus i do belive that we can not fathom his time. i believe in God and every word in his book. just 2 cent
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Your quote....
Flower, I am so glad you can read and take out contextual information from the text, it lets me know that you are smart enough to interpret exactly what you read out of your books.

If you read my original post, you would have known that I acted professionally and just observed the teacher. I'm not allowed to speak in the classroom, guide, teach, nor interact with students. Hence: observations.

I know that I should have been prepared for having God and religion in a science classroom, but not everything in this world, especially in Science, can be answered simply "because God created it to be so." That eliminates curiosity, intelligence, and thought and replaces it with ignorance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/396331/private-schools-and-evolutionary-theory#post_3531005
As some of you regulars know... I am in school to be a Biology teacher. Currently, I am taking a class that requires me to go to many different types of schools and observe many different grade levels. I had the opportunity to observe a Biology class at a Christian private school.

During the lecture, the teacher is discussing the basic parts of a flower and their functions. A student asked, "but how have flowers become so specialized?"

Now, this is where I dive into a discussion about evolution
- convergent evolution, genetics, cohabitation, speciation, geologic time scales etc. etc.

The teacher in this Christian private school
, whom I hope has been taught something about evolution says
"Flowers are not a product of evolution, but designed by God for many different purposes."

Jaw dropped.

Are private school kids at a disadvantage when it comes to the sciences? Would you want your child to be taught evolution? Would you want your child to know evolutionary theory and explain it as...you want your child to know that God invented evolution and his time is different from ours. I don't know what I would have said to this man, given the opportunity.

I don't understand...this is your first post on the subject...correct? Not a single thing in here remotely looks like you didn't interact...You certainly made it seem like you didn't just observe, acting professional, but put your two cents in as well. ...saying at this point you dove into a DISCUSSION
...which triggered my response. Now pray tell how you managed a "discussion" without interacting or speaking?

I'm just saying that if you know it's a Christian concept school, interjecting your opinion may mess up any future observers to be allowed in. If you didn't fine, but why did you word things in the above quote as though you had? Then you tried to make me look stupid for not reading your original post....that you just observed the teacher. You only said you were allowed into the school to observe, but the rest of the post reads that you didn't and dove into a discussion about evolution.



These folks are close minded, and think evolution is of the devil, they won't be wanting folks like you (UNBELIEVER!) the opportunity to poison little Suzy's mind with your nonsense. I'm sure someday little Suzy will find out about evolution, I'm sure her parents are hoping she will be brain washed by that time, and not listen.

A private Christian school not only controls any science they want taught, but their religious dogma as well. They want their children completely indoctrinated in all aspects as they personally believe. It may breed ignorance in your opinion, but I'm sure eventually logic wins. LOL...I hope someday you will figure out science is not all there is either. I'm certain you won't want your little Suzy listening to such "nonsense" and chase the creationists away from your door.
 
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