QT Live Rock...

[fishrich]

So far I have appreciated all the info I have received on the site but I have another question.. Should you qt live rock?? My display tank is 60 gallons and I have just set up a qt thats 20 gallons.. I'm not planning on useing the live rock as my source of filtration but more for added look in my dt. Just wondering if I should qt it.. More specifically should cured live rock be qt if your getting it from a store 20 mins away? Just in case if its not cured should u qt and for how long?Thanks again Rich

 

[sepulatian]

You should quarantine rock for three weeks. I personally know someone who got marine velvet in his tank from adding cured rock straight in. If there is any die off from transfer you will know by then as well.

 

[dinogeorge]

Sepulatian is dead on right!

Sometimes fish stores keep their cured live rock on the same water system as their fish. This means that diseases have the ability to settle within the rock and get a free ride into your tank. Not always the case, but why chance it.
Good luck man.

 

[rudedog40]

and exactly how do you tell what 'disease' a rock carries? Little white spots pop up on it to let you know it's ich? How about a fuzzy white patch. The rock caught brookynella!! Bottom line -- the only benefit I see with QTing LR is hitchhikers you don't want in your DT may crawl out. You have no way to tell what diseases a LR may carry by just looking at it. What if a LR you buy has corals, mushrooms, anemones, etc. on it, and your QT light doesn't have adequate PAR to sustain the coral for 3 weeks? Kill a perfectly good coral so you can make sure the rock doesn't have a disease you can't see? Are you going to do hypo as well?

 

[sepulatian]

Rudedog, I don't know why the hostility tonight but it is uncalled for. Rock can have parasites on it. You cannot tell if a rock has parasites on it, just as most times you cannot tell if a fish is carrying a parasite, hence the need for quarantine.

 

[dinogeorge]

Originally Posted by rudedog40
and exactly how do you tell what 'disease' a rock carries? Little white spots pop up on it to let you know it's ich? How about a fuzzy white patch. The rock caught brookynella!! Bottom line -- the only benefit I see with QTing LR is hitchhikers you don't want in your DT may crawl out. You have no way to tell what diseases a LR may carry by just looking at it. What if a LR you buy has corals, mushrooms, anemones, etc. on it, and your QT light doesn't have adequate PAR to sustain the coral for 3 weeks? Kill a perfectly good coral so you can make sure the rock doesn't have a disease you can't see? Are you going to do hypo as well?
I don’t seem to recall anyone suggesting that you can SEE a disease on the rock. And I didn’t suggest that the rock go through hypo either. I suggested that the rock be quarantined. (Not sure if you know there’s a difference?) By going through a quarantine period, you are eliminating the host for the potential disease and therefore reducing the risk of introducing it into your tank.
Your rudeness has no place here. The majority of us are here to offer our advice to those who ask for it, not to get our kicks trying to be rude to others. If you have something of value to add to the conversation, then have at it. Otherwise keep your miserable attitude to yourself.

 

[rudedog40]

Excuse me? How do you take my comments as rude or hostile? I'm bringing up valid points. As I stated, what benefit do you exactly get by QTing a rock? You say that a rock can have parasites on it. If your QT has the same water parameters as your DT, are you saying those parasites will die in a tank by themselves in three weeks, as opposed to being in a tank with other residents? If you can't see them, how do you know they died? Is three weeks adequate? Who came up with the three week timeframe for being an adequate amount of time to QT anything?
Do you also QT all your inverts you buy for three weeks? I can see the benefits of QTing certain animals we put in our tanks. But QTing virtually everything you put in it seems extreme to me. This hobby costs too much as it is when it comes to just maintaining a DT. Then you expect everyone to spend half as much keeping a QT available. Maintaining a saltwater aquarium is not an exact science. No one tank has the same water quality, parameters, or even the same ecosystem. You can't simply apply the same paranoid techniques to every situation in this hobby. If you don't like my blunt comments that oppose your viewpoint, that is your privilege. However, I don't appreciate you attacking my opinion simply because it doesn't agree with yours.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Dinogeorge
... By going through a quarantine period, you are eliminating the host for the potential disease and therefore reducing the risk of introducing it into your tank.....
Exactly.
And, yes, you should QT all inverts as well. Everything you introduce into your tank should be QT'd. The cost of keeping a QT tank is minimal when compared to the hobby as a whole; not to mention the savings you gain by not introducing disease, flatworms, parasitic snails, etc. into you display.

 

[fishrich]

Quick question regarding the qt of live rock. I don't put any medications in the qt with the rock right? Any diseases will just die off in the 3 week time frame? Also do I have to qt a anemone?? Because I don't think a anemone will survive with the lighting in my qt. thanks

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Exactly.
And, yes, you should QT all inverts as well. Everything you introduce into your tank should be QT'd. The cost of keeping a QT tank is minimal when compared to the hobby as a whole; not to mention the savings you gain by not introducing disease, flatworms, parasitic snails, etc. into you display.

Again, who made up the 'three week rule'? I'd really like to know the significance of this timeframe. Especially when it comes to LR. So you're stating that if I QT anything I put in my tank for three weeks, I'll be 100% guaranteed nothing in regards to disease or parasites will be introduced into my DT? I still don't get LR. It's a rock with live bacteria on it. You have no way of telling whether a parasite or disease is on it. It doesn't exhibit any symptoms like a fish, coral, or invert. Yes, you could detect unwanted parasites by QTing, but if you just scrub new rock real well, and give it a freshwater dip, you accomplish the same thing. Sorry, but I just don't get it.
And a QT tank isn't that expensive? The cheapest you can get by with is $50 for one of the all-in-one 10 gallon setups from the national pet store chains. This tank is adequate if you're QTing fish and some inverts, but if you get corals or anemones, you're talking at least another $150 just to get the right lighting. I set one up, but haven't used it yet. As a matter of fact, my daughter wants a King Snake for Xmas, so I'll probably just tear it down and use that tank for housing our new resident. If I do put anything else in my DT (no bites locally on selling it), it'll just be rocks and corals.

 

[1journeyman]

3 weeks is better than no weeks. I prefer to QT for 6 weeks.

Again, though, the longer you QT the less likely you will introduce disease or parasites into your tank.
As you pointed out, you can set up a QT tank for $200. Considering most SW tanks have more than that invested in rock alone it is a small price to pay.
As for the time table; Many parasites like ich have known life cycles. By QTing for a certain length of time you break that cycle.
Fishrich, you should QT all specimens, but if you cannot QT an anemone due to lighting requirements make sure you transfer it into your QT tank just to rinse it off good before transfering to your display.

 

[renogaw]

i qt'ed sand for 4 weeks.
guess why?
cause the tank i got it from possibly had ich in it.
guess why 4 weeks?
cause thats about twice the amount of time ich lives in the sand.
why is it so hard for you to grasp that people are not making things up? quarantining is NOT something new. It also is not only suggested here.
you say $50 is a lot of money... why on earth are you in this hobby if $50 is a lot of money to you? if you're buying expensive corals, another $150 shouldn't be a problem so you dont kill or infect the $100's, or thousands some people have, in the dt.

 

[dinogeorge]

Originally Posted by rudedog40
Excuse me? How do you take my comments as rude or hostile? I'm bringing up valid points. As I stated, what benefit do you exactly get by QTing a rock? You say that a rock can have parasites on it. If your QT has the same water parameters as your DT, are you saying those parasites will die in a tank by themselves in three weeks, as opposed to being in a tank with other residents? If you can't see them, how do you know they died? Is three weeks adequate? Who came up with the three week timeframe for being an adequate amount of time to QT anything?
Not sure why you don’t get this?
The diseases we are speaking about HAVE to have a host. The hosts are the fish. If you QT your live rock in a separate tank, where there are NO fish (hosts), then the disease dies out. The normal life cycle of the majority of the host-related parasites is between 3 to 6 weeks.
So, if you have no host for parasites to live on, the potential diseases within the live rock die. If you put the live rock directly into your tank, then you increase the chances of introducing disease. The cost to replace livestock is a bit higher than it is to set up a QT.
If you choose to put things directly into your tank, without quarantining them, that’s your call. But I am pretty sure that anyone asking for advice would do well to ignore your arguments. How can you find fault with the benefits of QT?
As for your comments about the rock not showing signs of disease; well of course they don’t. But that does not mean the parasites are not there. You can introduce parasites by simply pouring the water from the bag your fish came in, into your tank. Just because you can’t see something doesn’t mean it’s not there. Have ya ever seen a flu bug?

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by renogaw
i qt'ed sand for 4 weeks.
guess why?
cause the tank i got it from possibly had ich in it.
guess why 4 weeks?
cause thats about twice the amount of time ich lives in the sand.
why is it so hard for you to grasp that people are not making things up? quarantining is NOT something new. It also is not only suggested here.
you say $50 is a lot of money... why on earth are you in this hobby if $50 is a lot of money to you? if you're buying expensive corals, another $150 shouldn't be a problem so you dont kill or infect the $100's, or thousands some people have, in the dt.

LOL. Yea, you're right. $50 is a lot of money to some people. Unfortunately, I had no idea that setting up a 55 gallon saltwater tank would be so expensive to maintain. I've had a 40 gallon fresh tank for years, and have spent 1/10 what I've spent on this stupid 55 in just 5 months (yea, yea, now I'll hear the "Shoulda done research before you started" song from some wiseguy). I'm glad you're independently wealthy and have unlimited funds to keep your tank running. Me, I still don't believe in the 'QT everything imaginable" theory so many of your have embedded in your brains. In the 5 months I've had this tank up, I've lost 10 fish. Out of those 10, I can see where QTing one of them may have saved him. All the others, they either died from stress from shipping, or died with no signs of any diseases. Whether they would've been in a QT or a DT, they would have died either way. In between them, my Hawaiian puffer, SFE, one chromis, and GB Star have done quite well. The only disease I've had was ich on my blue hippo. I treated him in my DT with Ich Attack, garlic, and Metronidazole. It never got on any of my other fish, and cleared off of him a week after treatment. That was almost 2 months ago. Now the only thing I plan on adding to my tank are corals. I have several local resources that keep a consistent stock of any coral you can imagine. None of the sources keep fish in their coral tanks, nor are their systems that hold corals tied to any tank with fish in them. So I guess if any QTing is going on, I'm letting them do it at their expense, not mine.

 

[1journeyman]

Rudedog, I don't think anyone is going to fault you for not wanting to spend a lot of money. That said, we can't give out advice based on doing things as cheap as possible either. In the over all scheme of things a QT tank is a relatively cheap investment. Corals can contain parasitic flatworms, aggressive pods, dangerous snails, etc. as well as diseases specific to inverts.... One wrong introduction can wipe out an entire reef tank. Consider the cost of that mistake.
Back to the original post; Yes you should QT live rock. Some do not, but the risks far outweigh the benefits of such.

 

[renogaw]

RD: i am not independantly wealthy. If i were, i wouldn't have to worry about the money ive spent on my tank... but because i am not independantly wealthy, and i work hard for my money, i know the value of protecting what i've spent my money on.
spending $50 on a QT is nothing in the big scheme of things. how much did you lose by not qt'ing your fish? how do you know that nothing would have prevented them from dying if you had? a qt is also a place to give your fish a stress free existance for a couple weeks after it just got bagged in the ocean, shipped to and dumped into a holding tank at a shipping facility, then bagged and shipped and redumped into a tank at your lfs, then bagged AGAIN and dumped AGAIN into your tank. (btw, swf.com can be considered a lfs).
if you don't have the money for a $50 qt, then that is THE reason you should have one. You know how much it hurts to lose the money on a fish...flushing $20, $30, $50 down the drain 2 or 3 days later...
sry we went off topic, but hopefully the OP learns something more than what was originally asked.

 

[waterlogged]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Exactly.
And, yes, you should QT all inverts as well. Everything you introduce into your tank should be QT'd. The cost of keeping a QT tank is minimal when compared to the hobby as a whole; not to mention the savings you gain by not introducing disease, flatworms, parasitic snails, etc. into you display.
I know diseases die with no host in qt tank. Is that true for flatworms, parasitic snails, and other things?

 

[renogaw]

yup, as long as the parasite is not a detritus/algae eater, everything should die off without a host.

 

[renogaw]

btw, i guess i should mention that some diseases will live on, and it is always a good idea to clean out the QT everytime you have a sick fish in there. white vinegar works wonders.

 

[fishrich]

Could I put the live rock into a big rubber bin with proper salinity salt water and a wavemaker for its qt time?? If so do I need to do water changes, how often? Any other tips? Thanks again!!!