3stripedamsel
Member
Does ich get rid of itself after 8 months with no new fish (starting with the latest fish ) added in display tank? I had read this somewhere not sure.
Is this correct?
thanks
Is this correct?
thanks
Question about ICH?
- Thread starter 3stripedamsel
- Start date
renogaw
Active Member
there was a study that suggests ich will naturally die off after a year if absolutely no fish (or i'd assume corals that can carry ich) are added for that time. this does NOT mean they are right, its just some research that was done:
Burgess and Matthews (1994) were attempting to maintain a viable population of C. irritans which could be used in later studies. To maintain the parasite populations, they needed host fish in order for the trophonts to feed and continue the life cycle. Each host fish was only used once in a process of serial transition such that none of the hosts would die or develop an immunity. While the procedure worked very well and enabled them to maintain populations for some time, the viability of the populations decreased with time and none of the 7 isolates they used survived more than 34 cycles, around 10 to 11 months. They suggest this is due to senescence and aging in cell lines is well recognised in Ciliophora.
The presence of aging cell lines in C. irritans suggests that an aquarium that has been running for longer than 12 months without any additions is unlikely to have any surviving "Ich" parasites, yet another exception to "Ich" always being present.
Burgess and Matthews (1994) were attempting to maintain a viable population of C. irritans which could be used in later studies. To maintain the parasite populations, they needed host fish in order for the trophonts to feed and continue the life cycle. Each host fish was only used once in a process of serial transition such that none of the hosts would die or develop an immunity. While the procedure worked very well and enabled them to maintain populations for some time, the viability of the populations decreased with time and none of the 7 isolates they used survived more than 34 cycles, around 10 to 11 months. They suggest this is due to senescence and aging in cell lines is well recognised in Ciliophora.
The presence of aging cell lines in C. irritans suggests that an aquarium that has been running for longer than 12 months without any additions is unlikely to have any surviving "Ich" parasites, yet another exception to "Ich" always being present.
3stripedamsel
Member
Thanks for the info,
Now I'm curious lets say someone use some of the reef safe meds or some med that can only kill the free swimming or on the body. Doesn' that buy time for the ich to eventually die off (of course assuming they don't add any more livestock). Since it really is around 1 year for the battle.
Now I'm curious lets say someone use some of the reef safe meds or some med that can only kill the free swimming or on the body. Doesn' that buy time for the ich to eventually die off (of course assuming they don't add any more livestock). Since it really is around 1 year for the battle.
sepulatian
Moderator
Originally Posted by renogaw
there was a study that suggests ich will naturally die off after a year if absolutely no fish (or i'd assume corals that can carry ich) are added for that time. this does NOT mean they are right, its just some research that was done:
Burgess and Matthews (1994) were attempting to maintain a viable population of C. irritans which could be used in later studies. To maintain the parasite populations, they needed host fish in order for the trophonts to feed and continue the life cycle. Each host fish was only used once in a process of serial transition such that none of the hosts would die or develop an immunity. While the procedure worked very well and enabled them to maintain populations for some time, the viability of the populations decreased with time and none of the 7 isolates they used survived more than 34 cycles, around 10 to 11 months. They suggest this is due to senescence and aging in cell lines is well recognised in Ciliophora.
The presence of aging cell lines in C. irritans suggests that an aquarium that has been running for longer than 12 months without any additions is unlikely to have any surviving "Ich" parasites, yet another exception to "Ich" always being present.
Let's not gloss over the fact that this study is from 1994 and exceptions have been present for quite some time. This does not say what kind of fish were used. Some fish, such as mandarines, have a very thick slime coat. We don't know what kinds of fish were used in the study. I do not, for a second, believe that the ich population would simply die off. If ich has a host then it will infect and kill. Let us not forget that in this study the infected fish were removed so that they were not infected again. This is not the case in a closed system. The same fish are attacked repeatedly until they die.
there was a study that suggests ich will naturally die off after a year if absolutely no fish (or i'd assume corals that can carry ich) are added for that time. this does NOT mean they are right, its just some research that was done:
Burgess and Matthews (1994) were attempting to maintain a viable population of C. irritans which could be used in later studies. To maintain the parasite populations, they needed host fish in order for the trophonts to feed and continue the life cycle. Each host fish was only used once in a process of serial transition such that none of the hosts would die or develop an immunity. While the procedure worked very well and enabled them to maintain populations for some time, the viability of the populations decreased with time and none of the 7 isolates they used survived more than 34 cycles, around 10 to 11 months. They suggest this is due to senescence and aging in cell lines is well recognised in Ciliophora.
The presence of aging cell lines in C. irritans suggests that an aquarium that has been running for longer than 12 months without any additions is unlikely to have any surviving "Ich" parasites, yet another exception to "Ich" always being present.
Let's not gloss over the fact that this study is from 1994 and exceptions have been present for quite some time. This does not say what kind of fish were used. Some fish, such as mandarines, have a very thick slime coat. We don't know what kinds of fish were used in the study. I do not, for a second, believe that the ich population would simply die off. If ich has a host then it will infect and kill. Let us not forget that in this study the infected fish were removed so that they were not infected again. This is not the case in a closed system. The same fish are attacked repeatedly until they die.
3stripedamsel
Member
Hmm..but wouldn't using different fish would be a better study. Since the new fish would not have grown any kind of immune cell instead of using the same fish over and over again. That is why in some LFS shops there are fishes (triggers) that last quite a while in the shop, probably immune to the disease.
Also I assume they would use a tang or a angel in a 34 cycle.
Also I assume they would use a tang or a angel in a 34 cycle.
sepulatian
Moderator
Originally Posted by 3stripedamsel
Hmm..but wouldn't using different fish would be a better study. Since the new fish would not have grown any kind of immune cell instead of using the same fish over and over again. That is why in some LFS shops there are fishes (triggers) that last quite a while in the shop, probably immune to the disease.
Also I assume they would use a tang or a angel in a 34 cycle.
Fish do not develop an immunity to ich. Ich is a parasite, not a virus. Fish that are repeatedly attacked have ther immune system worn down until there is no fight left in the fish. Most LFS's run copper through the water. The water also runs from tank to tank. The parasite is present but kept at bay and can host a new fish.
Hmm..but wouldn't using different fish would be a better study. Since the new fish would not have grown any kind of immune cell instead of using the same fish over and over again. That is why in some LFS shops there are fishes (triggers) that last quite a while in the shop, probably immune to the disease.
Also I assume they would use a tang or a angel in a 34 cycle.
Fish do not develop an immunity to ich. Ich is a parasite, not a virus. Fish that are repeatedly attacked have ther immune system worn down until there is no fight left in the fish. Most LFS's run copper through the water. The water also runs from tank to tank. The parasite is present but kept at bay and can host a new fish.