Question about sumps

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lilredwuck

Guest
Why does everyone suggest putting the return in the middle. My plan was to have the water enter on the left side. Have the skimmer > bubble trap> refuge> return.
But for the return I was only going to build a 3" tall baffle, to keep the sand out, and use eggcrate for the rest of the baffle to keep everything else out of the return area. Also to have the ato set up in the return area so snails and such wouldn't bug it. Why put the return in the middle, and refuge on the right, to have the return feed the refuge, wouldn't that use a bigger pump and more electricity? More plumbing with more to go wrong? Plus the return would be the farthest away from the microbubble producing skimmer.
That and it would add to the water volume as well. Always a bonus. Just trying to clear it up, as I don't understand.
 
monsinour

monsinour

Active Member
Thats how mine is setup, save it goes right to left. You will want a higher wall between fuge and return section. And I have caught nassi snails trying to get a ride up top, so egg crate is not the end all be all. Check my tank thread in new hobbiests for pics of my sump.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
There are more benefits to have the fuge on one side and the skimmer on the other side. Being able to isolate the fuge from the rest of the system is a big one. Being able to feed both with the dirtiest water possible is another. It is more plumbing but not much, if it's set up right then theres not alot of chance for anything to go wrong with the plumbing. A 3" tall baffle on your return means water levels will fluxuate in your fuge. Check out Melevs Reef for sump designs, as well as some do's and don'ts about how to set one up. And no, it doesn't necissarily mean you need a bigger pump.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Agree!!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/381127/question-about-sumps#post_3318449
There are more benefits to have the fuge on one side and the skimmer on the other side. Being able to isolate the fuge from the rest of the system is a big one. Being able to feed both with the dirtiest water possible is another. It is more plumbing but not much, if it's set up right then theres not alot of chance for anything to go wrong with the plumbing. A 3" tall baffle on your return means water levels will fluxuate in your fuge. Check out Melevs Reef for sump designs, as well as some do's and don'ts about how to set one up. And no, it doesn't necissarily mean you need a bigger pump.
 
L

lilredwuck

Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/381127/question-about-sumps#post_3318449
There are more benefits to have the fuge on one side and the skimmer on the other side. Being able to isolate the fuge from the rest of the system is a big one.
Why if I may ask.
A 3" tall baffle on your return means water levels will fluxuate in your fuge.
Why would this matter either? The baffle is just in place to keep the sand out of the return area.
Check out Melevs Reef for sump designs, as well as some do's and don'ts about how to set one up.
I have looked and they are all basically the same, I am just wanting to know why my idea is bad, or wouldn't work right.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
I'll be happy to answere those when I get home later. Didn't say your idea is bad just saying there are more benefits going another route. What do you plan on having in your fuge?
 
L

lilredwuck

Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/381127/question-about-sumps#post_3319412
I'll be happy to answere those when I get home later. Didn't say your idea is bad just saying there are more benefits going another route. What do you plan on having in your fuge?
IDK, haven't figured that out. Maybe a frag station would be nice. I just see more potential for a say 32" fuge minus 4" for a return pump, than 16" for a fuge and 16" for a return section that's all. I am just having trouble understanding, so there for the not setting up.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
A reasoning for a higher return baffle is do your return water height would be more stable. At 3" that's not a lot of water to cover or feed a pump with. Eggcrate as a baffle in the sump IMHO would be worthless.... It would allow micro bubbles through to the return section; therefore being transferred to the DT.
How many baffles were you planning in the sump? Baffle spacing? The theory on putting the return in the center vs. your chosen route is your pods and such have a better chance of reaching the DT vs. Going through a skimmer or what not. Again a very reputable and well known source was given to reference, and his build ability, knowledge appears either wasn't read or understood. I'd honestly read melevsreet and look at all his examples and theory and logic on the matter.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Another reasonin that slowly crosses my thick head is the flow rates are different through your huge and your sump. Trying to push everything through in that order to me appears to hinder some usefulness of the fuge????
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Honestly, and this is just my opinon...but you might want to figure out excactly what the plan and purpose is going to be for your fuge before you build it. Because what you inted on it doing plays a big roll in it's design. Personally, a fluxtuating water level in a fuge is going to hinder it's ability to do some of the things that it's designed to do. It probably won't be quite as efficient and helping to break down the nitrogen cycle. And if you plan on growing macros then the rise and fall of the water could inadvertantly effect it's growth as well as how they perform in the removal of phosphate and nitrate.
Some things to think about in regaurds to having the fuge on one side of the return and skimmer on the other; Fuges are much more efficient when the water flowing through them is tavelling at a slower pace. And people with this type of design will typically run about 25% of the drain water through the fuge and the other 75% through the skimmer. This has proven to be a more effective combination. If for some reason the sand bed in you fuge were to become lacking with benificial life and fauna then your sand bed could become a waste trap and begin to do more harm then good. This type of system allows your sandbed/fuge to be issolated from the rest of the system untill the issues can be solved. Theres multiple reasons and I'm sure there are some other folks who can explain them to you alot better than I. But I researched for over a year and went through mulitiple sump designs before I realized why some are better than others. Personally I just feel that if you're going to design it and build it then why not go with something more efficient and flexible.
If saving yourself time inbetween water top offs then you might want to look into setting up an automatic top off system.
 
L

lilredwuck

Guest
Just needed some answers. Just like I need more. I did visit melevs site, but I feel more confused now, then before, if that's possible. Now, I plan on getting an Octopus Extreme 200. One problem. I am more confused now.
At **************
height 20.9"
footprint 14.2 x 8.3
Sicce PSK-2500
black and slightly curved at the very top
black bubble plate
At ***********
height 21.75"
footprint 13.5 x 8.5
Sicce PSK-2500
Black and curved halfway down
clear bubble plate
At Saltysupply
They called it and Reef Octopus Extreme Series XS-200
height 21.75
footprint 13.5 x 8.5
Sicce PSK-1000
RED and curved halfway down
red bubble plate
This one has a gate valve
footprint 13.5 x 8.5
THIS IS WHY I GET SOOOO CONFUSED!!!!!
 
gill again68

gill again68

Active Member
I think 2Quills and Acrylic are leading you in the right direction. Melve has a great product and its tested. You will find that most go with that design. As mentioned if you do it your way then you will have to figure out the flow through the fuge. The other thing I think was mentioned was the amount of water in the return pump area. This is where you want to see your evaporation happen. If you do what you are suggesting then I would think you would have to have an endless supply for ATO. Now some people do and thats great. I dont and I like to go on vacations so I like the larger pump return area. Its also big enough to put all my electronics so my skimmer sits alone. I have a 40 gal breeder basically split into 3 equal parts. Sure I would love my fuge to be bigger but to tell you the truth I got so many pods and stuff in there now I think it would take care of a much larger system. My 90 is doing great with it. Now if your trying to use it for phosphate and nitrate reduction then you will have to have a massive refugium to see much benefit. Thats what I read. But let us know what you decide. Take pictures or it didnt happen and remember PVC is cheap and done properly its fun to fool with. Good Luck and let us know what questions you have.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilredwuck http:///forum/thread/381127/question-about-sumps#post_3319574
Just needed some answers. Just like I need more. I did visit melevs site, but I feel more confused now, then before, if that's possible. Now, I plan on getting an Octopus Extreme 200. One problem. I am more confused now.
At **************
height 20.9"
footprint 14.2 x 8.3
Sicce PSK-2500
black and slightly curved at the very top
black bubble plate
At ***********
height 21.75"
footprint 13.5 x 8.5
Sicce PSK-2500
Black and curved halfway down
clear bubble plate
At Saltysupply
They called it and Reef Octopus Extreme Series XS-200
height 21.75
footprint 13.5 x 8.5
Sicce PSK-1000
RED and curved halfway down
red bubble plate
This one has a gate valve
footprint 13.5 x 8.5
THIS IS WHY I GET SOOOO CONFUSED!!!!!
Yeah it can get confusing shoping for skimmers...different websites sometimes always have something different to say. The one at Salty looks like they are offering it with a smaller pump. Your best bet to get the actual footprint is probably go to Coral Vue website, they are the manufacturers of the ocotpus skimmers and send them a email and ask what the actuall dimensions are. Along the way they have made modifications to some of their skimmers so that can also add to the confusion and the differences that you sometimes see.
 
L

lilredwuck

Guest
Yeah, I think I will follow the design for the most part. I probably won't leave the empty space under the refuge like I see. More work. As for visiting the coralvue site, I did that last night, and sent an email. I got a response already. I sent this email. Which wasn't the best, but hey I wanted to see how they responded. I know they aren't pieced together, but.... here is what I wrote








I was planning on purchasing a Octopus Extreme 200, but am really leery about buying one now. I was looking for one at a good price, and all the specs and names vary as much as the prices. These are just some of the differences.
At **************
height 20.9"
footprint 14.2 x 8.3
Sicce PSK-2500
black and slightly curved at the very top
black bubble plate
At ***********
height 21.75"
footprint 13.5 x 8.5
Sicce PSK-2500
Black and curved halfway down
clear bubble plate
At Saltysupply
They called it and Reef Octopus Extreme Series XS-200
height 21.75
footprint 13.5 x 8.5
Sicce PSK-1000
RED and curved halfway down
red bubble plate
This one has a gate valve
So is this a misprint? How is a PSK-1000 going to do 200 gallons when the PSK-2500 does 200 gallons? Why is this one red.
Why is the first one curved at the very top only, with a black bubble plate?
Why is the second one curved halfway down, with a clear bubble plate?
I really don't know if I would feel comfortable getting one, when it looks like they are pieced together with whatever parts are laying around and the simple fact that I wouldn't know which one to pick. Why there are so many differences and sooo many different models on top of that.
There are SUPER Reef Octupus skimmers that are supposed to have a better pump, but the xp-2000 only does 180 gallons? Can you make some since out of this? At least if I get an ASM G-3 I know what I'd be getting.



This is the response I got just before 11 this morning.
Hi Chad
We made upgrades on our Extreme skimmers. The new model is called Extreme XS. We upgraded the PSK2500 because Sicce designed new pumps for our skimmers and we designed new pinwheels for them. The XS160 model comes with a PSK600 and the others come with a PSK1000. A lot of people have not updated their site as some of our customers still might have some of the previous models in stock. We just received the new ones 2 weeks ago. If you ever have a doubt, please look at our site for the latest info. And no our skimmers are not pieced together. We make upgrades to our skimmers to make them better. Marine Depot was just informed Thursday of the new skimmers when they placed an order. I'm sure you will changes shortly. I'm not sure why Bulk Reef still has the old. And Salty Supply has the new info. If you order from him it will come straight from us to you. You will be assured to have the latest one. We send emails monthly and when new shipments arrive to let our customers know of the new items or any other info we might have at the time. Unfortunately I cannot manage their website changes. If you have any more questions please let me know.
Thanks
Brandi
 
monsinour

monsinour

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilredwuck http:///forum/thread/381127/question-about-sumps#post_3319628
This is the response I got just before 11 this morning.
Hi Chad
....... And Salty Supply has the new info. If you order from him it will come straight from us to you. You will be assured to have the latest one. .......
Thanks
Brandi
It sure sounds like if you can order straight from the company, do so as it will save you some coin. My wife did this for a little bit on ebay with some kind of toy around christmas time. We made money by placing orders with other companies for our customers.
 
L

lilredwuck

Guest
I don't know what to do. There is the extreme 200 which used a sicce 2500 and can pull up to 50. Then there is the extreme xs-200 with a sicce 1000 pump which pulls 32scfh, BOTH of which are rated for 200 gallons, but big differences. Then there is the super reef octopus extreme with the bubble blaster pump, which is rated for 180.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
BubbleBlaster pumps perform better......I think some of those air/pull numbers are at extreme case....a lot of things can influence the amount of air pulled....Is the number 50 on a modded pump?
 
L

lilredwuck

Guest
It comes with a needlewheel impeller and a meshwheel impeller, the 50 was with the meshwheel.
 
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