Question for TerryB or Beth about hypo treatment...

[katherine]

Terry or Beth, it seems to me you are the more knowledgable about hyposalinity, so I hope you can help me. Since May 2nd, I have been treating with hypo. my trunk cubicus and perc. clown in a 20 gl.QT, and so far have not seen any more signs of ich. Saturday, I was given a Porcupine puffer and a Yellow tang as a gift so I put them in my main tank which had been fish free for exactly three weeks. However, yesterday afternoon I saw the first white spots on both the porc. and the tang. My question is, can I go ahead and put them in the QT with my trunk cubicus and perc. clown (which have already been cured) without causing damage to either one. How long can I treat my fish with hypo. without causing any damage? and, will my cubicus and clown get ich again once I put the infected fish in with them ... are there any other options? I cannot treat my main tank because I have inverts and live rock in it. Also, I have been having a hard time maintaining a proper pH in the QT. Right now it is between 7.8 and 8.0. I read that if I use buffer to increase it, I also increase any toxic ammonia that may be present. I have been doing a 3 gallon water change every other day with distilled water to eliminate anything building up, and I have a Whisper filter with carbon in it. I have been feeding my fish in the QT a very little amount three times a day... is this okey? What is the minimum amount of feedings per day? All my fish are juvenile (about 1 to 1 1/2 inches long).
I am sorry this is so long. Thank you in advance.
<img src="graemlins//confused.gif" border="0" alt="[confused]" />

 

[beth]

Well, you have a bit of a problem here.
The fish that are currently being treated in the hyposaline hospital tank must continue treatment for an additional 2 weeks. Now you have more fish that have ick, however, YOU CAN’T put them in the hypo tank because you need to acclimate them over a 48-hour timeframe to the hyposaline conditions of the treatment tank. [You can not just put the new fish in the hospital tank because the hospital in hyposaline].
Why did you acquire more fish at this time?
The easiest solution I see here, is to setup a cheapo 48-hr temporary hospital [rubbermaid container] and slowly acclimate the new fish to hyposaline conditions over 48 hours. At that time, you can introduce them to the existing hospital and then start the count-down again beginning from day one. 3 wks after all signs of ick have gone, you can begin to raise the salinity in your hospital tank back to normal perimeters [4-5 days]. Following this, wait another wk. If all is well, then you can reintroduce your fish to your main tank.
Now that your main tank has been given a booster with the ick cycle [the intro of additional fish] then the countdown for clearing your main tank of the parasite begins anew.
Bottom line is, that even though the fish in your hospital tank have been treated for 2 wks, it will still be a month before you can even think about reintroducing them to the main tank, because your main tank has been recharged with ick.
What ever way you choose to handle this, the basics need to be covered:
1. Main tank wo fish for 1 month [starting from the day that all fish are vacated].
2. Fish currently under treatment can not return to the main tank for 1 month [even though their treatment will be done in less time than that].
3. New fish need to undergo standard treatment but must be acclimated to hyposalinity within 48 hrs so you can’t just introduce them to the hospital tank at this point.
4. New fish that are placed with treated fish in hospital tank should not re-infect fish because the parasite is infectious during free-swimming stage only. Once the parasite becomes free-swimming in hyposaline conditions, it will not survive.
Don't worry about hyposalinity being damaging to your fish during this timeframe. However, if you really want to go the extra mile with the fish, you can setup a whole new hospital tank for the 2nd batch of fish. The timeframe for treatment will be different for the 2 hospital tanks, but your ability to reintroduce your fish to the main tank WILL NOT be different. Your main tank must now be devoid of any fish for at least 1 month. Meaning: DON'T PUT ANYMORE FISH IN THERE ! for now at least...
How big are the new fish? Will a 20gal hospital be overcrowded with the additional fish?
Are you having an ammonia problem at this point with the hospital tank? What is your reading? 8.0 PH is fine. Raising PH is only a problem if you have ammonia present. Sounds like you are doing just fine with your water changing schedule as well as your feeding, unless you have ammonia or nitrites present. Basically, you need to keep this tank from cycling. And, if you add more fish to it, expect to do double duty on the hospital tank in terms of keeping it clean. If you see any debris accumulating on the bottom of the tank, vacuum it up ASAP.
We’re here to help, so don’t feel bad about asking. Good luck!

 

[katherine]

Beth,
Thank you so much for answering so quickly. Since I cannot really go out and buy a new tank, I will do as you said and put up a temp. rubbermaid container and acclimate over the 48 hrs. (I did know I had to do this slowly); I will then put them in the QT I already have with the other two fish, and treat them all for the time you said.
I also did not buy the new fish, they were given to me as a gift since my original tangs died and I was so heartbroken. My new fish are juvenile measuring about 1 to 1 1/2 inches. I have not seen any symptoms of scratching, eating less, etc. They are still both perky and very curious. They are really adorable.
Thanks again for your reply, and I will keep you posted.
Anthem, thank you also for your reply.

 

[beth]

Make sure that the temporary container [rubbermaid] has not been used for "other purposes" and that you add circulation to the container.
Have water test kits handy to keep track of water conditions daily.

 

[seaguru]

Hello Beth and Katherine,
Just thought I'd join in on this topic, I have not used true hyposalinity in the past (only taken it down to 1.016) but have some comments and questions for you both...
Beth,
A little off the subject but you seem to be quite the expert on salinity (have read many of your other postings) could you offer some insight on what the minimum SG I can keep starfish/crabs/snails in my FO 120g display tank/55g refugium? Even though I have not moved up to a full blown reef system after 25 years I am toying with various cleanup critters for my sand bed...
And secondly what is your take on using copper in conjuction with hyposalinity, do you think this will cause to many stress variables for the fish to deal with while in quarantine? Also I usually use some antibacterial med such as maricyn-two when I use copper... thanks, Joe.
Katherine,
I have used nitro-bacteria additives, specifically this one: Tropical Science's Nitromax Marine (at a very reasonable price)
<a href="http://www.**************.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=6&pCatId=4003" target="_blank">http://www.**************.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=6&pCatId=4003</a>
in my quarintine setups in the past and have been able to keep ammonia/nitites low even while medicating with copper and maricyn-two (effective against some bacterial infections).
If your biological filter in your quarantine system is questionable I highly recommend using this product to enhance your filter's effectiveness. Last but now least if you use any meds be sure you have no substrate such as crused coral or rocks in quarantine tank... use PVC (which does not react with meds) piping from HomeDepot or hardware store for hiding places. Good-luck, Joe.