Question...

[mr. guitar]

Hey y'all! Hope y'all have an excellent Thanksgiving tomorrow!!! This is another question I have that we were talking about in my Early American History class. It's a very interesting topic. We've been goin over this for a couple of days. Please be very honest with this question...so don't look it up!!!

. Does our Constitution guarantee a separation of church and state? Does it say we have to have it? Thanks for your response ahead of time.

 

[dr. evil]

no and no

 

[sign guy]

not evan a hint

 

[darknes]

I'm going to say no just because you posted the question. If it was in the Constitution, you wouldn't have posted this, lol.
It's been a while since I've taken American History, but the original founders of our country were much different than people view them today. Many of the original settlers did not move here to have freedom of religion, but rather they were very strict Puritans that wanted to be able to enforce their religion. Also, the country wasn't created so that people could have all their freedoms and such that we idealize. The people just didn't want to pay taxes to Britain, and so making their own country meant more profit for themselves.
Not to really get off subject or start a debate, but another thought I wanted to add: Americans/Europeans literally wiped an entire race from the planet (Indians)! I took an early American History course in college, and although some tribes did fight with Americans, others tried to live in peace and even live with them, but were forced off their land and onto reservations (which were small plots of land that were uninhabitable to Americans).

 

[ruaround]

what do you mean by "guarentee"??? i think its the first ammendment that says there wont be a law written restricting religion... would have to look that up though...

 

[mr. guitar]

What I mean by guarentee is that we have to have it..it's necessary...it's part of our way of life. Everyone who said no is of course correct! haha. I've asked a lot of people that question and they said, "Yes, of course it is." What?! hahahaha. A group of us at school were thinkin about goin around town and askin that question to random people and see what they think. I bet you anything they would all say, "Yes." hahaha. Ya know what kills me is the people/ judges that say it's in our Constitution base it on 1 letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote!!! It had nothing to do with separation of church and state. haha. People are weird.

 

[sign guy]

I think the founding fathers wated to create a free nation. One in that you could worship any thing you wanted.
where I get bent off is how we as christians are expected to always take the back burner. Our oppion is always the last heard. If you point it out the first thing out of someones mouth is seperation of church and state. Why is it when something is offensve to christians it's " open minded " or " creative ", like I am making a big deal out of nothing. If it offends me then shouldn't it be important as well? Why do I have to moniter the tv like a hawk and still be mocked for being offended when someone uses my GOD'S name in vane?
To much to say pluss I cant spell when I get angry

 

[dogstar]

Jefferson used that phrase while President, as a short discription of what he felt the first admendment means...to a particular sect, that wrote to him complaining about it....imagine that....It was already ratified and part of the constitution befor he said it....Many people have their own thoughts of what it means as this thread points out.....Im thankfull its there myself, many wish it was not. I feel the meaning ( and spirit of its reasoning ) is understood by all but some dont want true freedom for others when it comes to individuals to be free " in or from " religion = when it comes to A goverment imposeing or restricting one. The goverment should play no role in religion other than protect the people, all of the people, in each of their rights regaurding it.
The truth is that the constitution says what it says...I wish all would read it...On the other hand, what would be a substitute ?....An incorperation, a union, a joining of a church and a State ?? How would that look, or work?
and what church ?
Yours or mine ?

 

[sign guy]

Originally Posted by Dogstar
The truth is that the constitution says what it says...I wish all would read it...On the other hand, what would be a substitute ?....An incorperation, a union, a joining of a church and a State ?? How would that look, or work?
and what church ?
Yours or mine ?
good point. But as time passes it seems more people are standing up for other religions but not christians. Why? Just because there are more of us than any other religion in America? I want the same rights.

 

[dogstar]

What rights do you feel as a Christian, you dont have ?

 

[imurnamine]

This nation was founded on the basis of religious tolerance. To practice religion how you did (or didn't) want to.
I'd love for that to still be a choice and not have laws made because 'the Bible says it's wrong'.
I am a Christian, though. I just believe that God made us smart enough to be able to choose.
We don't need laws telling us what is right or wrong.

 

[mr. guitar]

I agree...we don't need the laws tellin us what's right and wrong. Just pointin this out...our founding fathers wanted this to be a Christian Nation but if you are of a different religion they wouldn't kill you over it. If you go to the Middle East if you are of the Islam faith you'll loose your head. That's why we have our Natural Rights...God given rights. Some Supreme Judges know how stupid most of the American population is so they use that against everyone who doesn't know that those rights are God given.

 

[ruaround]

whos God gave the rights though???
dont over look the fact that our founding fathers practically wiped out a race of people partially because of their religious/spiritual beliefs... much like the crusades, if you werent christian and tried to stand in the way... you died...

 

[dogstar]

I think the founding fathers as every one likes to point out...wanted a nation free from government tyranny...like one that would impose religious doctrine. I would think that thats why they wrote the Constitution the way they did.....
I asked earlier....what would you wish it said ???

 

[mr. guitar]

Originally Posted by ruaround
whos God gave the rights though???
dont over look the fact that our founding fathers practically wiped out a race of people partially because of their religious/spiritual beliefs... much like the crusades, if you werent christian and tried to stand in the way... you died...
Our God...as in the Christian God. Our Natural Rights are God given. They aren't government given...if they were they (the government) can just take them away right now. Then that leads into something else then we have a great communism government.
Originally Posted by Dogstar
I think the founding fathers as every one likes to point out...wanted a nation free from government tyranny...like one that would impose religious doctrine. I would think that thats why they wrote the Constitution the way they did.....
I asked earlier....what would you wish it said ???
What do you mean what do I wish it said? The First Amendment or the entire Constitution? Just clarifying.

 

[dogstar]

Any of it I quess.....Im not really clear on the point that your trying to make in this thread.....you started the thread talking about how many people feel that the constitution does create a seperation...although that is a vauge word.....and not specificaly used, but still basicaly the same thing as to what it does mean.....if one does feel that way...Im guessing you dont......then you used the word guarantee, as if a piece of paper can guarantee anything, it has to be backed up by the courts, legislation and mostly by the people...
So what Im asking you is, what vauge words would you use to say it means...or specific words that you would like to see in it so that it would be '' clear to all '' the true meaning if you dont feel it means a seperation....
If this is your point...im not really sure as I said...
I will agree that a government can not control a persons religion...or what one beleives in their heart and mind.....but one of the points of the constitution is to keep them from trying to control them.....because the founders knew what that could be like...

 

[mr. guitar]

The reason I posted this thread was to see how many people, if any, knew what or isn't in our Constitution. To your question...My specific phrase would be what James Madison wanted in the First Amendment. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of a National religion. James Madison wanted to put the words "of a National religion" but the other men didn't seem it was necessary to put it in there. They all knew what it meant but they would've never thought what might happen in 2006.

 

[ruaround]

Originally Posted by Mr. Guitar
Our God...as in the Christian God. Our Natural Rights are God given. They aren't government given...if they were they (the government) can just take them away right now. Then that leads into something else then we have a great communism government.
so youre saying ALL other religions are wrong and the only religion that should be observed is Christianity... then isnt that going against your the point in your last post???
arent most laws already based on the 10 commandments... or am i just way of in thinking here??? if i am off in my thinking then laws and government are one in the same... perhaps we should look at Government, Laws and Rights all seperately...

 

[dogstar]

Thank you for that.....
'' Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of a National religion. ''
According to the way you phrased the desire of Madison, it would still allow for congress to make laws respecting an esablishment of any religion they chose to as long as it had not been first declared a National One...Am I understanding you correctly. This is what you also desire ?

 

[xoxox]

Yes..,and you even have the right to pray to Satan (and some do)... :scared: