Questions about livestock to add

fishyscientist

fishyscientist

Member
I have a 125g aquarium + 55g sump with LS and LR that is currently in the nitrite stage of the cycle. We will be ready to add livestock soon, and we were so caught up in getting our tank cycled properly, that we didn't think about what fish we want! We want a colorful, peaceful tank with hardy fish with the option of having a few easy soft or LPS corals in the future (we have the lights for it).

First of all, should we put a fish in first or start with a CUC? What CUC would you recommend for a new tank?

Also, here is a list of fish we KNOW we want. Not sure what to add first or any other fish ideas after this short list.

2 clownfish (ocellaris prob?)
1 tang (recommendations?)
1 dragonnet (I know this requires an established setup with copepods, so won't be for a while)

Other possibilities:
bicolor or midas blenny
sand-sifting type goby?
flame angel or another colorful variety?
a firefish?

Any advice? Recommendations? We are open to different inverts too (such as brittle star, urchins, etc)! I'm not sure what my tank can handle either, so any info on ANY of these questions would be helpful! Thanks so much!
 
seecrabrun

seecrabrun

Active Member
No matter what you get first, research doing quarantine. Last thing you want is for 1 critter to bring something in and destroy your 125g tank.
 
fishyscientist

fishyscientist

Member
I actually do have a 20g tank that is dedicated to quarantine. I had a tank years ago and had ich on one fish and learned my lesson then!
 
Bryce E

Bryce E

Active Member
Love the flame angel... such a pretty fish. That's what I'm after as well. I'm getting one for my new tank but not for a while until I'm certain everything is stable and I have enough algae going for it to graze on. I've also heard that they are territorial but tend to be less aggressive if they are added last but I'm not sure. Sounds like 125 gallons will be giving it plenty of room.

Yellow tang is very popular and for great reason due to how much the yellow pops on the tank and they usually do very well with other fish. I named my yellow tang "Gent" because of how polite he is and because of when his dorsal fin is down it kind of resembles a "rich boy haircut" lol

Also on my list is a Mystery Wrasse and Royal Gramma.

Love the Dragonet. If I was forced to choose a "favorite fish" The Green Mandarin might just have to be the winner. So beautiful.

And once your cycle is complete you're ready for a clean up crew. The end of a cycle will go from diatoms to other little green algae blooms and that's when it's nice to have the little fella's doing their work. Recommendations, hermit crabs, emerald crabs and snails. Just remember that snails are more sensitive than hermits so you'll want to make sure you're really ready for the addition of snails. Good luck on the tank!
 
silverado61

silverado61

Well-Known Member
Urchins demand no less than perfect water conditions and need algae to graze on. I would wait a few months before you decide to add one. They are beautiful and interesting animals with a personality all their own. I have two. A gray longspine and a decorator urchin.
 
aduvall

aduvall

Member
Flame Angels are gorgeous, and one of my favs, but temperamental. I'd give them a bit. Also they are a bit aggressive. (although your tank size should limit that.)

Filefish jump so watch out for that. I'd look at some wrasses, they can be extremely pretty and fun. I've never risked a draggonet, they make me nervous.
 
fishyscientist

fishyscientist

Member
These are great replies! So if I get a CUC after the cycle is complete how many hermits, snails, and emerald crabs should I get? I've heard hermit crabs can be problematic. Why is this and do the benefits outweigh the risks?
 
seecrabrun

seecrabrun

Active Member
Hermits can be opportunistic feeders, meaning they will eat live creatures if they have the chance. They will kill your snails or possibly even a slow fish. If you get dwarf hermits you don't have to worry about the fish, but the snails could be in danger. They will kill them for their shells as well.

That said, I love my hermits. I had a species only tank for a while with just my hermits and some snails. I added a fish to help create the bioload to support them, but then got into fish as well.

I already had my hermit, a large thin stripe, so I remedied this risk by buying only dwarf snails. In with the snails came 1 dwarf hermit, silly little hitchhiker, so I had the 1 large and 1 dwarf hermit. In the 7 months I've had the dwarf he has killed 1 snail for its shell. It was a pretty big shell and so he hasn't needed to upgrade as he grows yet.

Now the large hermit... I made the mistake of thinking some large nassarius snails would be safe, but noooooo... She would flip them over and then sit and watch until they tried to come out. She would do this for hours until the snail finally came out enough that should could kill it. She killed them all over a 2 week span. So I'll be sticking to dwarfs only in that tank.

Dwarf hermits are good for the tank because they eat just about anything. Something small dies- they eat it, food left on the ground- they eat it, algae on the rocks- they eat it, detritus and algae on the sand- they eat it, and they ear hair algae.

There are different kinds of dwarfs that might be a little better at one task than the other. I've heard good things about scarlets, but I keep blue knuckles.
 
seecrabrun

seecrabrun

Active Member
Oh as for how many, a rough estimate is 1 per 10 gallons for standard sized or 1 per 5 gallons for dwarfs. Though some snails are way more efficient than others, so you just need to decide what kind you like. There are packages already setup on a lot of sites where you just name your tank size and they send you what they've determined is correct.

I like to be on the conservative side to start. It is better to have slightly less and add more than to have too many and they starve, die, and create more ammonia. Snails are pretty good about self regulating. If there is enough food to support more, they will breed. Hermits don't. It is nearly impossible to breed hermits in a home setup as they have very specific requirements. Some snails do better than others breeding in home.

I have a few snails I know survived a breeding. So far I've seen 3 dwarf ceriths and 1 nassarius that I know were from a breeding.
 
fishyscientist

fishyscientist

Member
Ok great! Are there any snails that are 'better' than others? Or is it best to get a few of each kind? What about the hermits? Variety? Does it matter? What about brittle stars? Can they be added after the cycle or should I wait on that?
 
seecrabrun

seecrabrun

Active Member
fishyscientist said:
Ok great! Are there any snails that are 'better' than others? Or is it best to get a few of each kind? What about the hermits? Variety? Does it matter? What about brittle stars? Can they be added after the cycle or should I wait on that?
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Different snails do different things. I think at first, since you won't have any fish, just get the "plant" eaters and add the "meat" eaters later. You can do them all, but you will need to feed them in specific until you get fish in there to feed them with their waste.

2014FishKiller said:
I would put the first fish on the main tank, to see whether or not your tank is ready.
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Fish are not a tool, you don't want to put a fish until you know it is ready. And definitely don't want to put a non-quarantined fish in the tank, even alone to test if it is ready. It could die and the parasites or disease could still live on in the tank.
 
pegasus

pegasus

Well-Known Member
fishyscientist said:
Ok great! Are there any snails that are 'better' than others? Or is it best to get a few of each kind? What about the hermits? Variety? Does it matter? What about brittle stars? Can they be added after the cycle or should I wait on that?
Click to expand...
It would be best to wait until you have a few fish in the tank before adding snails and/or hermits. The reason being that there won't be much detritus or leftover food from one or two fish. If you feel the need to add them sooner, only add a few at first, and gradually add more as your system grows. Too many too early means too many will die. As your system matures, you will want a mix of snails to cover multiple problem areas. Some are better at leftover food, others are better at detritus, and others are better at algae. It takes a mix to keep a healthy tank. Hermits can be a problem for snails unless you provide them with plenty of empty shells. As hermits grow, their shells become too small, so they need to find new homes. Providing those homes can reduce snail loss immensely. I think blue-legs are bad about attacking smaller hermits and snails, knowing full well they can't fit into the shells. I think they do it for sport. I haven't noticed this aggressive behavior nearly as much with the smaller varieties like red, scarlet, or white legs.

Once your system has matured and you have it "fully stocked", you may want to have as many as 1 snail per gallon. It may sound like a lot of snails, but it won't be as noticeable as you might think. Cerith snails tend to be nocturnal, and stay buried in the sand during the day. Nassarius snails usually pop out of the sand at feeding time or after lights out. Nerite, turbo, and astrea snails are 24/7, so they're pretty much always on display. A combination will take care of different situations, which is better than excelling in one or two areas, only to fail in others...
 
fishyscientist

fishyscientist

Member
Ok so I will plan to add maybe one or two snails and hermits of each kind to get started with extra shells to prevent the snail murders! How long after adding the CUC can I add fish? And what would be the best first fish to add? I was thinking clowns but I want two. Would that be too much for a first addition?
 
seecrabrun

seecrabrun

Active Member
to see if your tank is ready for fish test for ammonia and nitrite and nitrate. When the first two are zero and the last one has risen do a water change. Continue to ghost feed for a week then test again and if it still holds at 0 you're ready to add.

Go slow as you add fish and you shouldn't have any mini cycles.
 
fishyscientist

fishyscientist

Member
Ok! Such great advice! I am ghost feeding as the cycle goes on as well bc I read that in another thread. Hopefully that is the right thing. My ammonia levels were very high at first and I was worried! But they came down and nitrites went up, so I think we are good. Do the nitrates need to be 0 after the water change in order to add the CUC?
 
seecrabrun

seecrabrun

Active Member
Yes you want to ghost feed, use a raw shrimp, or ammonia additive to encourage your cycle. So you did right.

You want the ammonia to spike, then the nitrite raise and the ammonia fall, nitrite spike and the nitrates rise and in the end get 0-0-20+
When you water change, you determine how much nitrate comes out. Unless you have macro algae to absorb the nitrates, or other specific filtration, then the only way to lower nitrates is with a water change.

If you have a tank with 100g of water and 40ppm nitrates and you do a 20 gallon water change, you will reduce the nitrates by 20%. You want the nitrates at least below 20. Some creatures are more sensitive than others, some corals may require even lower.
You don't have to panic if it is above 20, just do small water changes frequently until it comes down.

This is a good little article to help explain the nitrogen cycle. Basically think of it as the circle of life/food chain of microorganisms.
http://puffernet.tripod.com/nitrogencycle.html
 
fishyscientist

fishyscientist

Member
Ok good to know! Thanks so much! Is it ok to use marine fish food to ghost feed or do I need to use shrimp? I used a lot of shrimp to get the cycle going and then removed when the ammonia got too high. Then I just used marine one fish flakes to ghost feed. Is that ok?
 
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