Questions on new tank setup and LR

[dam]

I am new to salt water tanks and appreciate the tips provided here. I would appreciate your comments on my setup. I have a 42H hex tank w/ Penguin bio-wheel power filter 170. I plan on a FOWLR setup. Substrate is CC (for better or worse). The tank has been set up for 3 weeks with a damsel remaining. Ammonia is returning to normal, nitrites are still high.
I want to add LR now before I get into adding fish. I plan to order online as the LFSs in the area are expensive and apparently not of great quality (per SW expert at local Petsmart). In reviewing LR I have questions on the different types of LR. I see Fiji rock on several pages, is this a good type to go with? I have also found on another site Tango Branch which I think may add asthetics to the display. I was wondering what thoughts or experiences you folks could share on the pros/cons of different types of rock. I was leaning towards 25 lb Fiji LR and 20-25 lb of the Tango Branch. Sound reasonable? Any warnings about wording of 'cured' vs 'pre-cured' on product descriptions?
Any other feedback on this new setup for a newbie are welcome.
Dave

 

[nas19320]

Welcome to the Board
Just so you know you can not post competitors sites or the post will get deleted or edited by the moderators.

 

[dam]

Thanks for the clarification on site etiquette, the reference has been deleted.

 

[ajroc31]

(per SW expert at local Petsmart) is there such a thing.
I actually have this set up. Becareful. People especially in America have this thing with categorizing everything and making genral statments. Ex. 2 pounds of lr p/g. B.S. Youy will see that fiji is like true rock, hard and very solid. Tonga is pourous, lot more then fiji. So a pound of tonga does a the job of at least 3 pounds of fiji. With fiji you basically dealing with very limited surface area. Tonga branch especially has lot more surface area. It is like with Europe, although it is small it has the largest coast line in the world because of its shape. Same applies here. So anyways, I used fiji for base like you are planing, because it is strong and hard , and covered it with tonga for its looks and its value as a filter( so that it is exposed to more circulating water). Tonga costs more but you will see that same size fiji rock weights almost 3 times as much as tonga branch, so you are paying same money plus you are getting much better rock. That 25 pounds of fiji and tonga is not a bad idea but you will see that you will have lot more tonga than fiji. So as I and you said, use the fiji for base of your structure and cover it with tonga.

 

[dam]

Thanks for the comments on the LR options. I think I am going to take the plunge and purchase this weekend. Wife offered to get it for father's day present.
WRT the Petsmart SW expert, he is recently relocated to the area and apparently spent several years w/ a lg SW outfit selling and breeding. He's been a good resource so far IMO.

 

[oregonbud]

My two cents - I am pretty new to this hobby as well and this is what I have learned from my dealings with everything.
Personally I like the Fiji rock better then Tonga, but that is my preference, I think you will see alot of people having opinions one way or the other, but I like the look of Fiji a little better then the tonga, as far as benefits of each one I am unsure of Tonga being better, or Fiji being better, again I think it is personal preference.
The one thing that I have heard a large difference about is the type of hitchhikers you can get on the rock - from what I have read it seems that mantis shrimp seem much more prevelant in the Tonga rock then the Fiji.
Cured/pre cured - all mean pretty much the same thing - the only cured rock I would place directly into a tank that has livestock in it would be the rock that I bought from the local LFS out of their tanks, if the rock is being shipped to you - cured or not- you will need to recure it before placing it into your system or you will experience another cycle.
It is a bit cheaper to buy LR online (I dont know what your LFS sells but here I get Walt Smith Fiji rock, for 5 bucks/lb) but you do not know what size pieces you are going to be getting, and the whole curing process (if you dont want to recycle the tank) involves some time, but when you figure it all up time, equipment etc - it may not be that much cheaper to buy online, and if you go through a store you get to pick the pieces you want.

 

[beaslbob]

personnaly i feel any live rock (or sand) is a waste of money. But then I am old school LOL

 

[jlem]

If you can get it. Lace rock looks really nice once the corraline and different algaes cover it and it is very cheap. If you can get some nice pieces of base rock then that is another way to go that is a whole lot cheaper. After some time no matter what rock you put in that is reef safe is going to look good. You will want a couple little pieces of live rock to seed the tank though but it only takes a couple pounds to get things going.
Lots of people have bought live rock from this site and are very pleased with it.
BEASLBOB I don't know how live rock and sand can be a waste of money since they are the foundations for a reef, or at least what the majority of hobbiest call a reef. If it is a fish only tank then I guess they could be a waste if you bought it because you thought you had to have it. Now I guess pieces of coral set into a bare bottum tank could be called a reef but it probably would be only you calling it a reef which is cool. What is considered old school? Old school saltwater or old school aquaria?

 

[cells]

You are using CC? Change out he CC, change out the CC!!!
I started with CC and nope, not good. Happy with the 40 lbs of LS.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by tangsfornuttin
You really feel this way? So what do you use instead for your aquascaping?
This was in response to my "live rock is a waste of money buth then I am old school LOL"
First let me say that live rock with it's critters, and the colors of the rainbow is awsome.
My point is that it is not worth $200 (or more). One of main concerns is that the rock can carry pests and diseases like ich. In order to assure there is no ich, it seems to me that a three week wait is required before adding livestock.
I would rather spend ~$20.00 with with such things as locally bought rocks, base rock, and various macro algae and marine plants. After a week I can add a mollie to start the cycle. After three weeks I have a balanced tank ready for marine- only fish. No need to worry about ICH as everything added came from land or freshwater sources.
As I said I am old school. Both ways you get a tank in about three weeks which is ich free and supports marine life. I would rather use the $180 difference for other things.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by jlem
Tangs. I did a slam on beaslbob the other day and really offended him so becareful. I was in the wrong the other day though. You just never know how people will tke things.

awwww gosh, gee whillikers, shuckie derns LOL
I welcome all comments. I am never offended. Calling an opinion a slam is more personnal feelings than any judgement on the idea. What is really important is to keep the ideas comming.

 

[scotts]

UH I am going to go off topic and try to answer DAM's question. First of all it sounds like you are doing your research. Good Job! Now I do not know much about CC, but I know that at least once a week someone posts a thread asking how to switch from CC to LS. You might want to do a search on this forum about that. Also, yes you definitely want to get your rock in there now. It will help with the cycle. In fact you might get a mini cycle when you put the rock in. What type of rock? Hell I don't know. You know more about that then me. I was stupid and just bought everything from the lfs.
A little plug for this site. You might consider purchasing it from here. Most people are very pleased with what they receive from here. Me included.
Oh yeah, welcome to the forum. Sit back, grab a beverage and join in.
Scott

 

[scotts]

I see that you are in Virginia. I think you might be able to get Southdown sand around there. Many people use it in their tank. It has the same texture and size as ls, but is much cheaper. You could get some of the southdown and a small amount of ls and your rocks. Put in your tank and eventually the southdown gets all the bugs and critters and becomes live sand.
Sorry if you like the CC. I have no experience with it, but it seems to give other people problems.
Scott

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by tangsfornuttin
Great - whatever works for you... that's the bottom line. Do you have any pictures to show the fruits of your labor?
The bottom line is I save $180. Only change is not using the live rock. As far a picture goes, maybe I spend some of that for a better camera . This tank is about 4-5 months old, glass was last cleaned 2 month ago, and the bushes (Gracilaria) on the left are red and on the right are green. The dark spot on the forward center rock is red corraline type algae. Colors do not show because it is a flash picture. And the yellow blur is the tang. He didn't like the flash camera.

 

[dam]

Thanks for the different opinions and comments on this. Shortly after my initial purchase of tank, CC, etc to try to start setup/cycle I found this board. Much to my dismay I shortly ran into the many comments about CC vs DSB substrates. I suppose I am being a hardhead by sticking with the initial purchase of CC and not switching now to DSB (especially after reading so much about why not to stick with CC). I don't have a big problem doing vacume of CC when I do water changes in order to try to keep the accumulated bio waste at low levels. That seems to be the big thing about using CC. Having thought through this LR issue in the tank though I am wondering about how effectively one can clean the substrate when a good portion is covered with LR that I don't want to move. Have others run into this issue?
WRT DSB, I was warned about issues of 'dead zones' were it was implied that toxic (or at least bad smelling) gases/decay could be created. I am sorry for sounding ignorant but I would appreciate any explanation or direction to a good source to read up on this. I haven't noticed any threads that discussed this issue.
I am already feeling like an addict who needs a new fix (aka pondering where to put a bigger next tank). I will definitely plan on the DSB approach next.
Thanks, Dave

 

[scotts]

Hi Dave,
My thought was that now might be a good time for the switch over. There are 2 people right now on the reef tank thread asking how to do it. Don't mean any offense, just offering my opinion.
I also have to problem vacuuming the substrate, howerver do not vacuum the live rock. Also if you do the ls thing, do not vacuum it. You are just taking the good stuff off the rock and ls.
Scott

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by tangsfornuttin
so those rocks are out of your backyard?
Wow - it really shows what can be accomplished in this hobby by saving money..... Good job.
thanks. Was a little nervious posting pic. actually they are all various rocks from the LFS. also lighting is just two 40W NO's in a $7.95 home depot utility fixture. Have added another fixture for total of four no's. total of 3300X4 lumens or 13,200 lumens. Seems to be sufficient for FO.

 

[tiuser]

Does live rock need special lighting??? the lfs said L/R is a reef set up which needs special lighting that they can sell me starting at $300. will any rock turn into live rock???
Thom

 

[laudluvr]

Tangs, I think you make do with what you have. Snobbery shows character, so does sarcasm in a mean spirited way. Kind of a crappy thing to say.
There are many "artificial" reefs all over florida made by cubical concrete slabs. I am not sure how they deal with the lime, but soon enough it is just another reef. Once life gets in, it is in.
Apologies show character too. IMHO, you owe one out. Everyone is entitled to their own.

 

[ryebread]

This is just a warning shot for everyone to keep playing nice in this thread.
Carry on.