Reef questions

doc308

Member
I have a new nanocube 24 that I got from a friend a few weeks ago. I tried to leave everything in it as it was already well-established. Lots of coralline, live rock, peppermint shrimp, nessaria snails, a few tiny polyps, several tiny tubeworms (3-4 mm), tons of bristle worms, etc. Overall, looked really healthy.
Last week after making sure the tank water parameters remained normal (testing done by a great local fish store), we decided to introduce a yellow watchman goby to the tank. He did great with the transition and he's doing just fine still. We started feeding him once a day a little bit of frozen brine shrimp. Everything seemed to be doing good for about a week. Went to the fish store and one of the salesmen told me about something called "Reef Bugs" that he said would be good for the coral and inverts. So we added one dose of that to the tank.
Last week we went back to the fish store and he said my water test that day showed a very strong elevation of nitrates (160). He said the problem could be the brine shrimp that they are a dirty food sometimes. So he sold me "Seachem de-nitrate", "Seachem marine buffer" and "Tropical Performance Nitromax" and told me how to dose them all. He also told me how to rinse the filter sponges if they are dirty as well as to remove the bioballs in the protein skimmer and to replace them with the de-nitrate gravel. He also recommended turning the filter off while feeding brine shrimp, and also sold me some sinking pellet food for the goby to help control nitrates. Overall, I thought things were okay and that his recommendations were probably correct.
Two days later the nitrates had not fallen much so he recommended 10% water changes daily as well as a water conditioner called "Aqualife complete". That seemed to work great and in two days the nitrates fell to 60 but the pH dropped from 8.0 to 7.8, so he recommended adding "Seachem Marine Buffer" along with instructions. He said the other water parameters tested well and that it would be fine to add a clownfish that we'd been eyeing. He did give us detailed instructions on how to very slowly acclimate the fish to the tank.
When we got home, we acclimated the clown slowly as instructed over the course of about 1.5 hours, slowly adding tank water to the bag. However, as soon as we finished and eased him out of the bag, within 5 minutes he was dead. We then began to examine the rest of the tank, inspecting the other animals, and that's when we saw the peppermint shrimp dead also. The goby was still alive although a little more stressed than usual (rapid gill breathing) and pretty still. So we were pretty crushed by all this happening so soon.
In checking carefully all the dosages and products, I then saw where the NitroMax product had in small print "freshwater". I called the pet store and they said that it was in fact for freshwater only and that there was another product that looked like it that was for saltwater. They said it was not their salesman's fault for recommending the wrong thing, that he may have just been confused. I agreed and said that I would do my own research next time to double check all recommendations. So I know that this was my fault.
Okay...long story....thanks for reading this far! It's almost done!
Finally, over the past few days the water parameters appear to be back to normal and the goby and other remaining wildlife appears healthy....except for the coralline! There are a few spots on the coral that appear to be bleaching and turning white. Our lighting is 72watts flurorescent and the lights are on probably close to 14 hours a day. That's a big increase in the lighting timing from before we bought it (maybe a couple of hours a day before). Yesterday I got a timer and it's set for about 10 hours now.
So I have several questions:
--is the nitromax freshwater product going to throw off the water chemistry bad enough to kill fish and coral?
--is the coral dying normal when lighting increases?
--or both?
Should I consider my tank in the middle of a cycle?
Thanks and sorry for the novel.
 

veni vidi vici

Active Member
WOAH!! thats a lot of info.
First off Welcome to SWF.com

Ok here is some suggestions for you.Stop putting all that stuff in your tank ,its not needed.I would buy your own test kits .Remember that though your LFS my have good intentions they are still a business and are going to try and sell you this stuff.
Nitrates can be controlled without the use of chemicals.First i would stir up any excess detrius in the tank and do some water changes ,i would start with 50%,then a few normal sized ones of 15% over the next couple of weeks.I would hold off on adding any more live stock to your tank until you get it flushed of all the chemicals you just added.
What type of filtration are you running?I would run carbon and change it every 4 days or so.
Could you post more info about your tank filtration , flow,lighting.......Then maybe we can help you out a bit more.
Oh yeah one more thing ,cut way back on the feeding.Only put enough in the tank that you fish will eat in a couple of minutes ,and it help if you turn off any power heads you have while feeding.
 

spanko

Active Member
Phew! First of all stop dosing anything the LFS gave you.
--is the nitromax freshwater product going to throw off the water chemistry bad enough to kill fish and coral?
First of all stop dosing anything the LFS gave you.
--is the coral dying normal when lighting increases?
The coralline dying (actually bleaching) could be from a number of things including a light schedule change, the move of the tank etc. etc. This is not a big concern to you right now so just leave it be.
Should I consider my tank in the middle of a cycle?
If the tank was already established and you moved it, it could be in a cycle if the sandbed was stirred, the rock was out of the water for an extended period of time, etc.etc. Only testing will tell you that.
You state your water parameters "appear to be back to normal". If this is the case I would sit back for a week or so, do your normal tank maintenance including water changes and see where you system goes.
 

doc308

Member
Thank you both for the help!
Okay, so for some answers...
Thank you, Veni--as to what kind of filtration, flow and lighting--I have the stock filters that come with the nanocube 24...there are 3 large black filter sponges...two of them in the first compartment...then there are bagged ceramic rings at the bottom of the second compartment, then as the water flows into the third compartment, another black sponge filter with 5 or 6 bioballs and the pump is below that. The lighting is what came with the hood...there are 2 blue-white combo bulbs and overall it's 20,000 k and 72 watts total. The filter is just simply a Rio submersible pump that is 290 gph.
I'm feeding about 8 of the .5 mm pellets once a day that I target feed the goby. Either that or target feed about 6 or 7 brine shrimp (not cubes, actual shrimp). Is that too much? Would you go to every other day? Also, I did a 50% water change and since then I've been doing daily 10% water changes. However, I have been adding the Aqualife conditioner...should I stop?
Thank you Spanko for reading all that too--okay--I've stopped adding anything except the water conditioner to the water changes...should I stop that too? As for testing, the calcium 290, magnesium 600, pH 8.0, ammonia .25, nitrates 60. There's more but I wasn't sure what all you need.
Thank you both very much!
 

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by doc308
http:///forum/post/2910774
Thank you both for the help!
Okay, so for some answers...
Thank you, Veni--as to what kind of filtration, flow and lighting--I have the stock filters that come with the nanocube 24...there are 3 large black filter sponges...two of them in the first compartment...then there are bagged ceramic rings at the bottom of the second compartment, then as the water flows into the third compartment, another black sponge filter with 5 or 6 bioballs and the pump is below that. The lighting is what came with the hood...there are 2 blue-white combo bulbs and overall it's 20,000 k and 72 watts total. The filter is just simply a Rio submersible pump that is 290 gph.
I'm feeding about 8 of the .5 mm pellets once a day that I target feed the goby. Either that or target feed about 6 or 7 brine shrimp (not cubes, actual shrimp). Is that too much? Would you go to every other day? Also, I did a 50% water change and since then I've been doing daily 10% water changes. However, I have been adding the Aqualife conditioner...should I stop?
Thank you Spanko for reading all that too--okay--I've stopped adding anything except the water conditioner to the water changes...should I stop that too? As for testing, the calcium 290, magnesium 600, pH 8.0, ammonia .25, nitrates 60. There's more but I wasn't sure what all you need.
Thank you both very much!
Your tank is cycleing from the move or you have ammonia readings from dead critters,ammonia should be 0 and so should nitrites. So your first step is going to be to get that taken care of.Water changes.I dont know what this conditioner does but if your using tap water i would look into an alternative source of water .
 

maryg

Member
Make sure you are using RO/DI water for your water changes. I would question your LFS about it's water is you are purchasing it from them. Seems like they have already given you poor advise. I was purchasing already mixed water (RO/DI) from my LFS and since I started buying my own water and mixing it myself I have noticed an improvement. Add some malcroalgae to your display (or fuge if your tank has one) like Chaeto. Avoid Culpera it is like a pesky weed. That will help a little with the nitrates. Maybe invest in a small nano protein skimmer. They run around 25$ to 30$. Well worth the investment.
 

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by MaryG
http:///forum/post/2910809
Make sure you are using RO/DI water for your water changes. I would question your LFS about it's water is you are purchasing it from them. Seems like they have already given you poor advise. I was purchasing already mixed water (RO/DI) from my LFS and since I started buying my own water and mixing it myself I have noticed an improvement. Add some malcroalgae to your display (or fuge if your tank has one) like Chaeto. Avoid Culpera it is like a pesky weed. That will help a little with the nitrates. Maybe invest in a small nano protein skimmer. They run around 25$ to 30$. Well worth the investment.
Personally, I would avoid adding Culpera or Chaeto to the DT, both will become pesky weeds (both algaes are sump only IMO). If you need to add a macroalgae to your DT get something that is slow growing like a shaving brush or a money penny.
 

maryg

Member
This site sells a plant assortment that is really reasonable. It can add to the look of your tank and provide some denitrification as well.
 

doc308

Member
Vini and Mary, funny you mention water quality because I've been buying RO water from the aquarium store they call "preconditioned water". However, I have no clue about how to go about either making my own or getting quality RO/DI water. Time for me to google search

Mary, I used to have a chaeto tank years back, I guess it's time to get another one now.
Scorpus, does the money penny or shaving brush do a good job of nitrification with a small amount or do I need a lot of it?
Thanks everyone!
 

spanko

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2910795
Your tank is cycleing from the move or you have ammonia readings from dead critters,ammonia should be 0 and so should nitrites. So your first step is going to be to get that taken care of.Water changes.I dont know what this conditioner does but if your using tap water i would look into an alternative source of water .
agree 100% here. you are cycling according to your reading of ammonia and you need to complete that first and foremost. However I would verify that reading with a test from another kit or another reefers kit.
Is this the water conditioner you are referring to?

If so are you adding it because you are using tap water or because you are relying on it's claims to "relieving stress, removing chlorine, removing ammonia, and was could be used for emergency ammonia or nitrite removal." Either way Veni is correct in looking at another water source if you are using tap. If you are using the product for the other reasons you can also stop that. Too many times people are relying on the addition of products to correct what can and should be corrected through proper husbandry. I believe your tank requires you to get back to some basics and let it settle out some then determine what is needed from there. A tank this size should and can get most if not all that is required from a good maintenance and water change schedule. Keep asking questions here you will get help from our group of knowledgeable folks that have been running tanks successfully and not just trying to sell you products.
 

spanko

Active Member
Wasn't money penny the secretary that wanted James Bonds bod all the time????
Just sayin............
 

doc308

Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2910848
agree 100% here. you are cycling according to your reading of ammonia and you need to complete that first and foremost. However I would verify that reading with a test from another kit or another reefers kit.
Is this the water conditioner you are referring to?

If so are you adding it because you are using tap water or because you are relying on it's claims to "relieving stress, removing chlorine, removing ammonia, and was could be used for emergency ammonia or nitrite removal." Either way Veni is correct in looking at another water source if you are using tap. If you are using the product for the other reasons you can also stop that. Too many times people are relying on the addition of products to correct what can and should be corrected through proper husbandry. I believe your tank requires you to get back to some basics and let it settle out some then determine what is needed from there. A tank this size should and can get most if not all that is required from a good maintenance and water change schedule. Keep asking questions here you will get help from our group of knowledgeable folks that have been running tanks successfully and not just trying to sell you products.
Spanko, yes that's the stuff. I guess I've been had by the fish store on that one. They say they put it in all the bags with all the fish they sell. All I know is that whatever I've added has really screwed my tank up. I'm seriouisly thinking about buying my own RO/DI apparatus and making my own saltwater. I have the master test kit, but I cannot interpret shades of colors very well and have to have someone else read the results. Either way, sounds like I need to get back to basics first.
 

doc308

Member
Okay, I'm only water changes now. Anyhow, I'm assuming that this was some sort of mini-cycle...
The coralline is continuing to have the bleaching effect and it seems to look a little worse with more discolored patches (lightening of color) every day now. Unfortuntely, I don't have pics uploaded just yet but I will very soon. Suffice to say for now that the solid purple color, in places, is looking either gray or white.
How do I stop this from getting worse? or is it normal when going through a cycle to lose some coralline? if it's normal to lose some coralline in a cycle, how do I know that this is either a problem that the coralline is just now reacting to, or if this is some continued problem that I'm not seeing? (for example, in humans, frostbite damage takes days for the tissue to start showing visible signs of damage...does coralline have a delayed effect and only show damage days later?)
Thanks everyone for all your help so far.
 
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