Refugium Help

[sickboy]

Just trying to plan this out a little bit, as I hope to get started soon. I'm looking at a 15 gal long due to constraints with the stand (only a 38 gallon tank). So with this size, I want to maximize usage, so I have a couple questions.
Sorry the drawing is bad, I was using a laptop to do it.
At "A", can I put the baffles pretty close to the wall of the tank and have the pump "in-line" outside of the tank? And if I can do this, can I just loop the hose up and down (secured somehow) or do I need to drill a hole for the hose toward the bottom of the tank after the baffles?
And "B" can I put a filter sock in the front part easily? And then, I saw they have 4" and 7" socks on a site I was browsing, but how wide are they? I assumed this would be 4" long.
And then yet another question: would you recommend using sand in a DSB or using refugium mud? And why?

 

[sickboy]

Nobody knows about the in-line pump?

 

[natclanwy]

Seems like there is an issue with running the pump this way other than it being kind of a pain to prime the pump but I can't remember why hopefully someone will chime in and remind me. Seems like it really reduces the flow rate of the pump but again I'm not sure.
I don't see why you can't put a sock in the first compartment.

 

[wattsupdoc]

If the conduit can loose prime, by water level lowering as a result of evaporation. Then it will not regain prime and fry the pump from running dry. Also it is generally considered not good for a pump to restrict the intake. Which is basically what you'd be doing as the pump will have to pull the water over the top of the tank, then push it up to the display. It'll work like that if you can protect from breaking the syphon in the intake. However, because cavitation can occur when the intake is restricted, I wouldn'.t recommend it. Drill the tank, or us it in sump.
You can use the sock in the drain compartment.

Personally, I have ran miracle mud before and have switched to DSB. I just don't see the logic in it, as well as anytime anything got stirred up in the fuge, the cloud of dust settled at least somewhat in the display. The idea behind the mud is that it creates an ideal environment for which to grow macroalgaes. As well as provide a NNR media. And it does work for that purpose. It just doesn't seem logical to me to add something into the system that encourages algae growth, when eliminating algae growth in the display is the reason behind growing the macro. As it is all one system it seems logical to me, that this is not working in the right direction.Many people do run the mud with good results I suppose. But myself will not run it anymore.
Additionally, anywhere you can add a good amount of LRR I would suggest it. Right before the return pump would be a good location.This will grow pods, create a bubble trap to help prevent re entry through the potential water fall into the compartment and help lower nitrates.
If you set it up correctly, you wont need to do any more than 1 baffle prior to the pump. Set that baffle at your desired water level for the fuge. (allowing for backwash also). Drill the tank and install a bulkhead there, then a ball valve and a union(or true union ball valve) and then the pump. Fill that compartment fully with LRR up to near the top of the baffle. Some of this will be semi wet, most should be fully submerged. However this compartment is where you evaporation will occur. So you want to make it large enough to allow for the evaporation to be allowed there. While still not drying out the LRR. AND allowing you to keep up with the evaporation through top offs. An ATO would be a very good addition here. There are many methods of achieving this. a float valve, is my choice though some disagree. Many choose a float switch ATO. However there are gravity fed and drip rate type ATO's also.
Hope that helps.

 

[sickboy]

So are you saying to have more rock between the last baffle and the wall, above the outlet for the pump, like bio-balls?
I drew this up as I was having trouble with paint, so I exchanged my horrible computer drawing skills for my horrible hand drawing skills.

 

[sickboy]

I actually just bought (well, have reserved) a 20H that will fit in my stand, so I may have enough room to put the pump in the sump. So, this brings up another question.
If I go the one baffle per side route, could I still put eggcrate above the pump and have live rock/ bio balls above it to add filtration and slow down the water crashing over the side?
Also, what do you mean by a place where evaporation occurs?

 

[wattsupdoc]

I mean where the evaporation shows up at. It will be in the return pump compartment. Your water level in that compartment and in that compartment only will fluctuate as it evaporates. I would cover the pump in rubble. That would not be a good thing. You'd have to dig all that out to get to the pump. Post up measurements of the DT you have, and the 20l. I'll draw something up for you. Along the lines your thinking.

 

[sickboy]

Oops, two posts ago I forgot to attach the pic I drew up...sorry.
Is this what you were thinking if I did the in-line pump?

 

[wattsupdoc]

Yeah except why even bother with egg crate? Just pile rubble in there. Also, you would be well served to do more than one baffle before the fuge. I like a split design just above your SB with a gap between another coming down. This directs the flow diagonally through the fuge. Like in this pic.
Note the raised pump design in this drawing is not a good option unless the water level is high enough to not suck air.

 

[sickboy]

Why two baffles on the front end?
I wanted to do the split baffle thing, but that was going to be my only baffle on that side. I am picking up the tank tomorrow so I can get the exact measurements. I think it is 24X12X16, its a 20H. So hopefully I will be able to use 15 and have 5 as disaster back-up.
It will be under a 38, 36X12X18.

 

[wattsupdoc]

The bubble trap on the drain side prevents bubbles entering the fuge and floating the cheato. Supposedly, Cheato likes to tumble. You can do away with it, but I would at least leave one there before the split baffle. I have a sump that is an ecosystem fuge, converted. It only has one baffle, I hate it and have that section crammed with LRR to prevent M.B. reaching my skimmer.

 

[sickboy]

So, would the filter sock help with bubbles?
Also, is there not a problem on the other end with bubbles and the pump?
And, how important is a self-priming pump? I was trying to get the smallest one possible.
and that brings up another question. I want the pump rated higher than the HOB overflow correct? But wouldn't it be best if I got one that was rated just slightly higher than the overflow?

 

[wattsupdoc]

Yes the filter sock will help with bubbles. Definitely you want to avoid bubbles in the return pump compartment. This is why it's important to do a trap just prior to it. Also, if the water falls down very far in the trap, it creates bubbles. A third, short, raised baffle right before the pump helps prevent them from making it to the pump.

 

[natclanwy]

Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2795907
So, would the filter sock help with bubbles?
Also, is there not a problem on the other end with bubbles and the pump?
And, how important is a self-priming pump? I was trying to get the smallest one possible.
and that brings up another question. I want the pump rated higher than the HOB overflow correct? But wouldn't it be best if I got one that was rated just slightly higher than the overflow?
You want a pump rated for 70%-100% of the HOB overflows rating after you subtract for headloss.