Refugiums

kevin34

Active Member
hey all, i am setting up a 55g frag tank soon and just got a great deal on another 55g that I will be using as a fuge. i know that fuges help supply nutrients to the water and keep nitrates down but what are the best things to put in a fuge? what kinds of algea? best substrate, sand or mud? whats the best type of lighting for a fuge and how much flow should be in one? and if i am running a fuge do I still need a skimmer? also feel free to post pics of your fuge setup
 

fishkid13

Active Member
Mine isn't currently up but I am having:
- Cheato for algae
- DSB now clue what kind of sand but it is whatever I have.
- Coral rubble
- 2 clip on light fixures
- 2 Protein skimmers (in the compartment before refugeium aka were the water flows in at)
 

ophiura

Active Member
I will say this, contrary to their "miracle" properties, a refugium is only another tool. Without proper setup and care, it will be nothing but an additional problem. You are likely adding a refugium as a chamber in a sump system.
A refugium, specifically, is a "low predation" environment (hence the name) where macroalgae growth is promoted. In conjunction, lots of microfauna, like pods, grow in high numbers (hermits, fish, etc defeat this purpose if added to a refugium). A refugium may have a substrate, like a deep sand bed, which furthers the reduction of nitrate, but technically a substrate is not necessary. Most have one, however. This chamber is in sequence with others in a sump, that may include an area of LR rubble, or bioballs, as well as an area that contains the skimmer, return pump, UV, heater, etc.
So, the set up, especially the positioning of chambers and flow through the system is very important.
IMO, yes, a skimmer is still a useful tool in many cases, though it has pros and cons and may not be absolutely required. A skimmer treats a problem at the opposite end from macroalgae...it removes lipids and proteins BEFORE they are broken down into ammonia --> nitrates. There are arguments against skimmers, including their use in conjunction with a miracle mud or refugium system (based on the concept that you may be starving the system of nitrates)...but, IMO, they can be used and most do. Most of us do not have a system in such perfect balance so the insurance afforded by a skimmer is very good.
I am not a fan of "miracle" mud which is basically an iron based terrestrial substrate. I am a proponent of using a fine sand substrate in a refugium.
For algae, there are several options, with chaetomorpha being one of the safer options. Caulerpa, in addition to being banned in some states and highly invasive, is another. It has a potential to go "asexual" and bleach out. Macroalgae growth, however, is only of benefit if you harvest (export) the algae every so often (trade in to LFS or trade to another hobbyist). This is how nitrates are truly exported from the system.
Lighting does not have to be anything particularly special. Many people use home depot shop spotlight type things though do be careful of exposed bulbs and clip on lights.
You may want to check in on the DIY forum for other ideas on how to set up the baffles and such. Definitely have your pumps and skimmer on hand before adding those baffles :) you don't want to run out of space.
 
A

abeandlulu

Guest
I dont know if this is any help. But here is a pic of my 75 gallon fuge. all i have in mine is sand, and caulerpa. I also have a seahare, and mean coral banded shrimp in there. the light is just a basic nova extreme light.
 

kevin34

Active Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
http:///forum/post/3101204
I will say this, contrary to their "miracle" properties, a refugium is only another tool. Without proper setup and care, it will be nothing but an additional problem. You are likely adding a refugium as a chamber in a sump system.
A refugium, specifically, is a "low predation" environment (hence the name) where macroalgae growth is promoted. In conjunction, lots of microfauna, like pods, grow in high numbers (hermits, fish, etc defeat this purpose if added to a refugium). A refugium may have a substrate, like a deep sand bed, which furthers the reduction of nitrate, but technically a substrate is not necessary. Most have one, however. This chamber is in sequence with others in a sump, that may include an area of LR rubble, or bioballs, as well as an area that contains the skimmer, return pump, UV, heater, etc.
So, the set up, especially the positioning of chambers and flow through the system is very important.
IMO, yes, a skimmer is still a useful tool in many cases, though it has pros and cons and may not be absolutely required. A skimmer treats a problem at the opposite end from macroalgae...it removes lipids and proteins BEFORE they are broken down into ammonia --> nitrates. There are arguments against skimmers, including their use in conjunction with a miracle mud or refugium system (based on the concept that you may be starving the system of nitrates)...but, IMO, they can be used and most do. Most of us do not have a system in such perfect balance so the insurance afforded by a skimmer is very good.
I am not a fan of "miracle" mud which is basically an iron based terrestrial substrate. I am a proponent of using a fine sand substrate in a refugium.
For algae, there are several options, with chaetomorpha being one of the safer options. Caulerpa, in addition to being banned in some states and highly invasive, is another. It has a potential to go "asexual" and bleach out. Macroalgae growth, however, is only of benefit if you harvest (export) the algae every so often (trade in to LFS or trade to another hobbyist). This is how nitrates are truly exported from the system.
Lighting does not have to be anything particularly special. Many people use home depot shop spotlight type things though do be careful of exposed bulbs and clip on lights.
You may want to check in on the DIY forum for other ideas on how to set up the baffles and such. Definitely have your pumps and skimmer on hand before adding those baffles :) you don't want to run out of space.


thank you! that basically covered everything i was wondering. the fuge is gonna be a 55 so I have plenty of room. I am thinking of dividing it into 3 sections just with sheets of acrylic. first small section for a skimmer, large middle section for the fuge, and the return pump in its own third section. do you know much about mangroves? I have heard they are the best for removing nitrates and phosphates. also what is a good depth for the sandbed?
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
IMO a refug should be a separate external tank interconnected to your water flow system. At the very least you are adding dilution to your system
With the increased water volume which is always a plus
 

kevin34

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3101256
IMO a refug should be a separate external tank interconnected to your water flow system. At the very least you are adding dilution to your system
With the increased water volume which is always a plus
thats my plan. i have 2 55g tanks. one for the main frag tank and the other for the sump/fuge
 

kevin34

Active Member
Originally Posted by Kevin34
http:///forum/post/3101219

thank you! that basically covered everything i was wondering. the fuge is gonna be a 55 so I have plenty of room. I am thinking of dividing it into 3 sections just with sheets of acrylic. first small section for a skimmer, large middle section for the fuge, and the return pump in its own third section. do you know much about mangroves? I have heard they are the best for removing nitrates and phosphates. also what is a good depth for the sandbed?
bump
 

kjr_trig

Active Member
Kevin here is a picture of mine from over a year ago, it is much dirtier now
...My sandbed is about 2 1/2 inches deep. Most people prefer Chaetomorpha for controlling Phosphate and Nitrate.
Susan, if you happen to reread this thread, what do recommend as far as maintenance/upkeep on them once established? I pretty much leave mine be.
 

ophiura

Active Member
Still here :)
In terms of upkeep of a refugium...again it depends on your purpose. If you are truly using if for nitrate reduction you really ought to "harvest" and remove the algae to keep it growing well. This stuff is usually packed with critters and many LFS will take it in trade...so check before throwing out. By the way, a word on that...I would recommend something like freezing this before throwing out. Certainly do not flush it down the toilet. Some of the algae can be highly invasive and pretty hardy overall.
If you have a sand bed in there, maintenance, IMO, should be similar to a tank sand bed, meaning I recommend nassarius or something else to "stir" this. Over time you will get lots of worms and such but there is still a benefit to keeping this sand turned over and such.
If you are using this for pods, every so often you may use something like a brine net to swish some pods and such out for feeding your tank

In effect, this is another part of your tank and so maintenance is still required. YOu need to assess if there is detritus build up, etc. and assure there is actually micro-creature growth in there. You may wish to seed the sand with mature sand from another tank or your own, as well as small pieces of rock. Overall, it doesn't require much but don't ignore it either (besides, there can be some cool stuff in there
).
 

ophiura

Active Member
Kevin - I don't know much about mangroves I'm afraid, other than people planting them in there.
I know about the mangrove ecosystem (again fascinating stuff) but less about them in our systems.
 

kevin34

Active Member
thanks for all the info. i will be using my fuge for nitrate and phosphate reduction. its gonna be on a frag tank so i dont think detritus will be a problem. i wont have any fish in this tank. and i will be using some live rock from the 125. what is a good sandbed depth? is the deeper the better for a fuge?
 

ophiura

Active Member
It depends on your philosophy on Deep sand Beds. If this is a no fish system, I am not sure a DSB is all that needed. I don't know if you will be feeding this tank at all? If not, a bit of food into the refugium now and then would not be bad. It is effectively similar to a fish pooping....critters like that stuff and all :p
 

kevin34

Active Member
i will be feeding the system oyster feast, roti feast, and maybe marine snow along with the occasional spot feeding of mysis.
 
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