Remote DSB

scopus tang

Active Member
Ok, can't get any thoughts on a multitier stand and remote DSB, so lets just try a remote DSB - looking at a 25 gallon plastic container with a 6" DSB. Whats the best way to plumb it in? Should it have its own return pump or should I split flow from the main return pump. Optimal water volume movement through the container? Primary purpose is increased water volume in the system, but also nitrate removal by DSB. Should the container have a lid or not?
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Scopus!
First of all, I love these kinds of threads! Woot!!!!
Alright, so, wow, I can't just write down everything that I would do. Man, if I were to do a deep sand bed, I wouldn't do it in a rubbermaid. I would do it in a tall 10g bucket.
You can either get a uniseal and pop a hole in the side of the bucket, or you can set the bucket on a stand and pop a hole in the bottom for a bulkhead and standpipe. You want a slow flow through the tank. I would only have a 3/4" bulkhead in the bottom. The standpipe has to be only slightly higher then the rim of the sump or aquarium that you are plumbing it to.
Deep sandbeds are great. Infact, I would personally create two of them... two buckets on a stand together. water flowing into one, draining into the bottom one, and then the bottom one drains into the sump. Since there isn't much flow through the buckets, I would never worry about excessive water runoff after you turn off the feed pump. The reason for the two buckets is that once every year to two years, you can take one of the buckets off the system and clean the sand.
I've seen someone set up a 40g brute trashcan with two uniseals and it filled up til about a foot to the top with sand. It was pretty neat, but your talking about a lot of money spent on sand!
If your going to do a rubbermaid with 6" of sand, I would also take advantage of the fact that it's extra space for macroalgae to grow. You can get a cheap, cheap clip on light from wal-mart to grow the algae. Great nutrient export. I guess you could do the same thing in a bucket too! lol
 

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33
http:///forum/post/2911261
Scopus!
First of all, I love these kinds of threads! Woot!!!!
Alright, so, wow, I can't just write down everything that I would do. Man, if I were to do a deep sand bed, I wouldn't do it in a rubbermaid. I would do it in a tall 10g bucket.
You can either get a uniseal and pop a hole in the side of the bucket, or you can set the bucket on a stand and pop a hole in the bottom for a bulkhead and standpipe. You want a slow flow through the tank. I would only have a 3/4" bulkhead in the bottom. The standpipe has to be only slightly higher then the rim of the sump or aquarium that you are plumbing it to.
Deep sandbeds are great. Infact, I would personally create two of them... two buckets on a stand together. water flowing into one, draining into the bottom one, and then the bottom one drains into the sump. Since there isn't much flow through the buckets, I would never worry about excessive water runoff after you turn off the feed pump. The reason for the two buckets is that once every year to two years, you can take one of the buckets off the system and clean the sand.
I've seen someone set up a 40g brute trashcan with two uniseals and it filled up til about a foot to the top with sand. It was pretty neat, but your talking about a lot of money spent on sand!
If your going to do a rubbermaid with 6" of sand, I would also take advantage of the fact that it's extra space for macroalgae to grow. You can get a cheap, cheap clip on light from wal-mart to grow the algae. Great nutrient export. I guess you could do the same thing in a bucket too! lol
Alrighty a response! Thanks SnakeBlitz. I'm actually considering a 25 gallon Ace Roto-Mold container from my local Shiptons (very heavy duty plastic container) - I'll try to get a picture up tomorrow. Comes prefitted with a 1" bulkhead on the bottom. Stands about 29 inches tall, and top opening is only 5", so reaching in to fit the standpipe might be fun
- hopefully I can preglue and just shoot it in from the top. With such a small opening, I don't think I want to try to grow macro algae in it. I like the idea of two, even more water volume, but I would either have to plumb them together, which means more bulkheads or placing the second on the countertop with the tanks. I was thinking of a top cabinet for a 5 gallon dosing jug already, may have to see if there is enough space for a second 25 gallon container.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Sounds pretty good. You could definately take a jigsaw and cut the top off of that and then just use a clip on light. You could maximise your efficiancy and grow some macroalgae.
Adding water volume to your tank never hurts. lol. I just think if you are going to do a deep sand bed, you need to go really deep 10+ inches to get good results.
 

natclanwy

Active Member
Just curious Snakeblitz33 why you would want 10" of sand if a 6" sandbed is sufficient to create anoxide zones for nitrate removal? Seems like I have read that nitrate removal occurs at a specific depth depending on the density of the substrate and will not travel further into the sandbed without an alternate means of water transport.
 

natclanwy

Active Member
Randy, how were you planning on return the water back to the system? I assume you would plumb it to drain back into a sump, if so it might be possible to do it without an extra pump. You could utilize the overflow and drain it into the remote sandbed and then let the RSB drain into the sump. All this depends on the RSB placement and the available space though.
If this isn't an option I think I would run a seperate pump to the RSB, I would think 100gph would be more than enough to satisfy the needs of the DSB but may not be enough keep waste and algae from accumulating in the RSB. Drawing more than 100gph from your main return will reduce the turnover rate in the tank pretty significantly which is my reasoning for using seperate pump that can provide more flow through the RSB without effecting the DT.
 

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by natclanwy
http:///forum/post/2911826
Randy, how were you planning on return the water back to the system? I assume you would plumb it to drain back into a sump, if so it might be possible to do it without an extra pump. You could utilize the overflow and drain it into the remote sandbed and then let the RSB drain into the sump. All this depends on the RSB placement and the available space though.
If this isn't an option I think I would run a seperate pump to the RSB, I would think 100gph would be more than enough to satisfy the needs of the DSB but may not be enough keep waste and algae from accumulating in the RSB. Drawing more than 100gph from your main return will reduce the turnover rate in the tank pretty significantly which is my reasoning for using seperate pump that can provide more flow through the RSB without effecting the DT.
Hey John, my you're up late. The system is at this point completely hypothetical. I'm envisioning two 29 gallon extra longs (same foot print as a 55 gallon tank, only 12 1/2 inches tall) stacked over each other on the top of a cabinet (stacking two tanks of the same size of course raises additional issues - please reference my post(s) on a multitiered tank stand). Both tanks could be bare bottom, but since I really don't care for bare bottom tanks (I know, I know, easier maintanence, but I just don't like the look), I would probably go with either a shallow or deep SB in the tanks as well. Lighting would consist of a 4' foot, four bulb PC light on the lower tank (for low light corals such as mushrooms, some zoas, and some softies), and a four foot two or four bulb T5 fixture on the top tank (for higher light demanding corals such as montis, some zoas, perhaps ricordia (although they may do better in the lower tank), candy canes, etc. The cabinet would be considerable larger than the tanks; I'm envisioning room for one of the 25 gallon containers (with a remote DSB) on a shelf that sits higher than the sump (possibly a 29 long (3 foot tank), but perhaps a 20 - sump would contain the skimmer and return pumps), additionally perhaps a octogonal tank tied at the bottom into the sump to provide a place for blue filter pad over LR rubble, and a seperate 10 or larger fuge (again on a shelf higher than the sump). Both the 25 gallon container and the fuge would gravity feed back into the sump (preferably through the blue filter and LR rubble). Also would probably need a chiller in there somewhere (maybe outside the cabinet) since the system would be in close proximity to the coal stove which heats my home. SnakeBlitz suggested a second container, Which I like the idea of and could see sitting on top of the cabinet (probably enclosed within a upper cabinet) that gravity feeds into the lower container. Above that, perhaps a 5 gallon dosing jug for dripping Kalk into the system.
My wife of course would kill me if she knew I was even thinking about a second system, so this is really simply dreaming . . . of course I do already have one of the extra long 29 gallon tanks, a four foot PC light, both a 20 gallon long and two 30 gallon long aquariums all of which are brand new and have never been taken out of the boxes
. I'm a collector
sue me
. Biggest issues are time, $, a T5 light, a good skimmer, and especially a chiller. Generally speaking I try to avoid used - I've gone that route before and I generally find that investing the money in new upfront saves investing additional money later. What can I say, I like to dream, and when I dream, I generally dream big
.
 

natclanwy

Active Member
I was thinking that this was going to be at school from the way you described it but now that I read your other thread I understand. I wouldn't hang my hat on a chiller yet, I think you could keep the tank cool through the use of fans and an ATO which would help with your time issue also, you wouldn't have to worry about adding water every few days at least.
The multitiered tank design complicates the design somewhat but I think using your overflows could still could be done depending on the height of the stand and the height of the RSB container your use.
 

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by natclanwy
http:///forum/post/2911964
I was thinking that this was going to be at school from the way you described it but now that I read your other thread I understand. I wouldn't hang my hat on a chiller yet, I think you could keep the tank cool through the use of fans and an ATO which would help with your time issue also, you wouldn't have to worry about adding water every few days at least.
The multitiered tank design complicates the design somewhat but I think using your overflows could still could be done depending on the height of the stand and the height of the RSB container your use.
Hey John, I would love to not have to use a chiller - however I've not had great luck keeping temperature in the acceptable range with my 65 that sits in a room adjacent to the room this system would be in, so I have to consider it. This tank of course will not have a MH light, which my 65 does, so it shouldn't be as big an issue, but it will be closer to the stove (almost next to it). Opps, sorry honey, I meant to say, "if it ever happened it would be closer to the stove."
Yeah, yeah thats what I meant
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
a couple of fans on it should do the trick. Fans turn on when the lights come on and go off when the lights go off. Also - measure how hot your tank gets during the day (just before your lights turn off) lets just say that it's like - 84 degrees. Well, it may dip down at night to 76 or so - which is really bad. So, set two heaters on about 84 degrees so it will stay that hot 24/7
 

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///forum/post/2912579
a couple of fans on it should do the trick. Fans turn on when the lights come on and go off when the lights go off. Also - measure how hot your tank gets during the day (just before your lights turn off) lets just say that it's like - 84 degrees. Well, it may dip down at night to 76 or so - which is really bad. So, set two heaters on about 84 degrees so it will stay that hot 24/7
Yeah . . . I've got the theory, here is the reality - 4 fans; two blowing cool air across the surface of the tank below the light and two pulling warm air from on top of the light (in a hood, but not fully enclosed). Light is a 36" 250w MH with two 55w PC lights. Tank daytime temp is 84 degrees, nighttime temp drops to 78 or so. Using multiple heaters doesn't stabilize temp and I'm afraid if I keep tank temp to high, it will get way high during the day.
If you haven't been following both threads, check this one for a rough diagram of what this thing might end up looking like.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/346592/multitier-tank-stand-questions
 

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33
http:///forum/post/2912749
lol, well, in reality, that is what I have done for years - so - yeah.
So a consistent 84 degree temp is better than a fluctuation? Curious cause I've lost tanks at 84 degrees, so I'm a little gun shy.
 

scopus tang

Active Member
SB33, unfortunately I have leathers (they're actually one of my favorite soft corals); and idea what the max. high end temp would be for them?
 

natclanwy

Active Member
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33
http:///forum/post/2912981
The best reef I ever kept was at 86 degrees. Mind you, I didn't have any leather corals.
I have read a couple of studies that have linked RTN in acropora to temps above 84 degrees.
Were you housing any SPS or was it just softies?
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
the only sps I had was a couple of aquacultured monti's. Mainly lps and softies. leathers can get up to 81 degrees before they start having problems. (just from my experience)
Leather corals are somewhat a cold water species, depending on their origin.
 
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