Restarting a 36g bow front from scratch

zeromus-x

Member
A few years back, I had a 36g bow front set up in my living room. When I moved, I tore the whole thing down, moved the fish and live rock to a 75g at work, and never got around to setting it back up. I've decided recently to get it back up and running. Except this time, I'd like to do it "right". Last time was very much a budget-oriented setup, buying things as needed and learning my lessons. This time I just want to do it right from the start.
I currently have nothing but about 90 pounds of live rock and a 4" sand bed that most likely needs to just get trashed and start over, since it's been dry for probably three and a half years now and ... Well, looks pretty nasty.
My goal for the project is to gets something that will work with corals and fish, though I'm most concerned with setting up as a FOWLR to begin with. Since it's not a big tank, I'd like to minimize the amount of space being taken up with other objects (power heads, protein skimmers, etc). However, the location of the tank prevents any hang on back units. Also, the tank is not drilled. I have lots of room under the stand, and ideally something like a canister filter that pulls water from the tank and pumps it back up would be great. Even better would be a 10g under the stand with some way to pump the water in and out.
One thing I want to avoid is having to syphon-start water from the top tank into the bottom one. I will not be here often (though other people will be here all the time) and therefore I really need something that manages itself as far as water flow and filtering are concerned.
Any recommendations based on this? I've been out of it so long I have to assume there's lots of new great stuff out there. If LED lighting fixtures have matured to the point of being cost effective at this point, that'd be great, but I am thinking that may not be the case.
Anyway, thanks for your time and help!
 

yannifish

Active Member
I've always liked smaller bow fronts.
Have you considered drilling the tank? It really isn't as bad as it sounds. Also, I've used a siphon style overflow for over two years now without any difficulties. So they do work. But whatever floats your boat, and gets water where you need it.
Sumps are more fun than canister filters... Everyone likes lots of PVC going everywhere...
 

zeromus-x

Member
I don't think I can drill it. It's all glass, and when I first purchased it, the store didn't seem too keen on the idea. I'd hate to shatter the whole thing. That said, I'd obviously prefer it drilled, since the shape of it lends itself to being drilled in the back corner and drilling my stand would be no problem at all to get the water to a second tank (probably no more an a 10-15g just due to space under the stand!).
I am reading a bit about LED fixtures and it does appear that they've come a long way in this hobby. I do have three LED fixtures already; they were doing duty as stage lighting but they're very bright units, 60 3w LEDs per fixture and a controller to set the colors. I don't know what color temperature the white or blue LEDs are, though, nor do I know if they would be adequate. They are outdoor rated and waterproof, though, with all connections sealed, so I can't imagine they would mind being above a tank. I see a lot about DIY LED fixtures, too, which I'd be definitely interested in giving a try. I don't need thunderstorms and stuff like that, just a basic rig.
I figure first thing is to get some good power heads. I'm on my iPad right now so I don't have my notepad of stuff handy, but I know last time I didn't have nearly enough water flowing around. I'm guessing two fairly powerful ones at the bottom, one aimed out at the curved glass from the back and the other aimed at the back corner should provide a pretty steady flow rough all the rock, when combined with an overflow or a syphon at the top rear. I also considered using some egg crate type stuff below the rocks to make a "tunnel" below them for airflow, though I don't know if that will really help or not.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeromus-X http:///forum/thread/384528/restarting-a-36g-bow-front-from-scratch#post_3369202
I don't think I can drill it. It's all glass, and when I first purchased it, the store didn't seem too keen on the idea. I'd hate to shatter the whole thing. That said, I'd obviously prefer it drilled, since the shape of it lends itself to being drilled in the back corner and drilling my stand would be no problem at all to get the water to a second tank (probably no more an a 10-15g just due to space under the stand!).
I am reading a bit about LED fixtures and it does appear that they've come a long way in this hobby. I do have three LED fixtures already; they were doing duty as stage lighting but they're very bright units, 60 3w LEDs per fixture and a controller to set the colors. I don't know what color temperature the white or blue LEDs are, though, nor do I know if they would be adequate. They are outdoor rated and waterproof, though, with all connections sealed, so I can't imagine they would mind being above a tank. I see a lot about DIY LED fixtures, too, which I'd be definitely interested in giving a try. I don't need thunderstorms and stuff like that, just a basic rig.
I figure first thing is to get some good power heads. I'm on my iPad right now so I don't have my notepad of stuff handy, but I know last time I didn't have nearly enough water flowing around. I'm guessing two fairly powerful ones at the bottom, one aimed out at the curved glass from the back and the other aimed at the back corner should provide a pretty steady flow rough all the rock, when combined with an overflow or a syphon at the top rear. I also considered using some egg crate type stuff below the rocks to make a "tunnel" below them for airflow, though I don't know if that will really help or not.
Have you inspected the bottom of the tank for any stickers that indicate that the tank is made with tempered glass? From my understanding most of the bowfronts that do have tempered glass utilize it on the bottom, curved front panel only. So typically the back is usually safe to drill, however, I would still try to confirm this with the actual manufacturere before proceeding to do so.
LED for reefs are done mainly with the use of cool white and royal blue colored led. Some folks have gone so far as to attempt adding in a few other colors though to help fill in the spectrum by adding such colors as a handfull or reds or cyan, and possibly a few green. But most of the manufactured fixtures use the royal blue and cool white. At the very least I'm sure your leds can be used on a fish only system with no problem. For corals though, you may just have to try it and see. 60-3w leds are deffinately more than enough for this size of tank. Infact they may be overkill unless you can dim the output.
Innitial thoughts on the egg crate idea are kind of iffy, IMO. If you have good flow in the tank then it's probably not needed. But if tunnels is what you are looking for then I've seen it done with pvc pipe and fittings.
 

yannifish

Active Member
I agree with 2Quills.Check with the manufacturer, unless you are uncomfortable with drilling it. But it really isn't that bad. All I know is I wish I had drilled my tank. If I were to set it up again I'd drill it for sure.
But overflow boxes do work. You just need to make sure it's set up right.
 

zeromus-x

Member
I don't have a clue who the manufacturer is anymore and the place i bought it from is out of business. But I am almost certain that there was a sticker that said it was tempered glass. Otherwise it would have been drilled a long time ago. And i sure hate to find out the hard way!!
I never thought about drilling one of the back pieces. Interesting thought. Assuming I have no idea who made the tank how would I go about finding out if it is drill able? Just guess?
The LED fixtures I have are from Longman and they are lighting strips designed for runways and large stages. They have plenty of power behind them, are weatherproof, and are fully programmable/dim able. So maybe I will give it a shot with them to see what happens.
What is your opinion on the old sand? I had a 4" live sandbed before, and it is dried out now and nasty. Should I just scrape the tank and dump it all? Or is there a way to "revive" a bunch of sand? It is full of salt from the water evaporation so I am more than a little concerned it will mess things up, but on the other hand, it'd save me a good bit of startup money.
 

yannifish

Active Member
The bottom pane is probably tempered. But the back and side panes probably not. You're better off drilling the back anyway (in my opinion) so that if you have a power outage you don't drain all the water out of the tank.
You could maybe call different tank manufacturers and see if any of them use tempered glass on the back?
I have no idea about the lighting.
As for the sand, there is no way to get your live sand back without adding more. But you'll need to really rinse out the sand well (until the water comes out of the sand clear) if you want to reuse it. I've reused sand without issues. Just rinse it super well, and once your tank is set up add some more live sand to seed it.
 

al&burke

Active Member
There is a way to tell if it is tempered. I read once on the internet you look through the glass with polarized glasses. Google it. I would drill it for sure if you can.
 

yannifish

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/384528/restarting-a-36g-bow-front-from-scratch#post_3369545
There is a way to tell if it is tempered. I read once on the internet you look through the glass with polarized glasses. Google it. I would drill it for sure if you can.
Just googled it, all you need is an LCD screen and polarized sunglasses.
Zeromus-X, google "how to tell if glass is tempered", and click the first link, it's another saltwater fish forum.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Yeah I've seen that too. I haven't tried it yet to see if it works. What you do is take an LCD screen like your laptop or cell phone and pull up a blank white screen. Set the laptop in the tank, put your polarized glasses on and view the screen through the glass. If the screen looks normal then it's not tempered. And if you see a bunch of like black lines running through the screen then it is tempered. I'm willing to bet the back of your tank is not tempered. I have 5 tanks sitting at the house and they all have stickers on the bottom which you can only read when they are empty with nothing in them. The tank that I drilled had a sticker that read "Tempered Glass Do Not Drill", but I drilled the back and it turned out fine so the back was obviously not tempered. I do have one tank with the sticker that says "this tank is made with ALL tempered glass, do not drill". So I don't ever plan on drilling that one. And sometimes the sticker will be real specific and say "this bottom is made of tempered glass do not drill". Just depends on the manufacturer I guess.
 

yannifish

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/384528/restarting-a-36g-bow-front-from-scratch#post_3369560
Yeah I've seen that too. I haven't tried it yet to see if it works. What you do is take an LCD screen like your laptop or cell phone and pull up a blank white screen. Set the laptop in the tank, put your polarized glasses on and view the screen through the glass. If the screen looks normal then it's not tempered. And if you see a bunch of like black lines running through the screen then it is tempered. I'm willing to bet the back of your tank is not tempered. I have 5 tanks sitting at the house and they all have stickers on the bottom which you can only read when they are empty with nothing in them. The tank that I drilled had a sticker that read "Tempered Glass Do Not Drill", but I drilled the back and it turned out fine so the back was obviously not tempered. I do have one tank with the sticker that says "this tank is made with ALL tempered glass, do not drill". So I don't ever plan on drilling that one. And sometimes the sticker will be real specific and say "this bottom is made of tempered glass do not drill". Just depends on the manufacturer I guess.
Yeah, I've bought tanks that had "Tempered glass-Do Not Drill" on the bottom on a little sticker, but I think that just meant the bottom. Well, I know it did, because I drilled the side and had no issues.
 

zeromus-x

Member
Got it. I will try the laptop trick and see what happens.
If the back is not tempered, about how far down should I drill? And would I still use a baffle? Our 75g at work is drilled on the bottom, and it uses a large plastic baffle in the corner to only allow the water to drain to a certain level. I am guessing drilling near the top of the tank would give the same result without the need for the baffle, which would be great considering the limited amount of room in the tank to begin with.
Any suggestions on the size of the hole? I'll be running it down to a 10g tank for filtration and then pumping it back up to the main tank, and likely using 2-3 power heads in various locations in the main tank for circulation. I assume with this setup that I can do all filtration in the bottom tank, including protein skimmer, uv, etc?
Glad to hear that I may be able to "save" the sand with a bit of work. There's a lot of it and I hate to just dump it!
 

yannifish

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeromus-X http:///forum/thread/384528/restarting-a-36g-bow-front-from-scratch#post_3369868
Got it. I will try the laptop trick and see what happens.
If the back is not tempered, about how far down should I drill? And would I still use a baffle? Our 75g at work is drilled on the bottom, and it uses a large plastic baffle in the corner to only allow the water to drain to a certain level. I am guessing drilling near the top of the tank would give the same result without the need for the baffle, which would be great considering the limited amount of room in the tank to begin with.
Any suggestions on the size of the hole? I'll be running it down to a 10g tank for filtration and then pumping it back up to the main tank, and likely using 2-3 power heads in various locations in the main tank for circulation. I assume with this setup that I can do all filtration in the bottom tank, including protein skimmer, uv, etc?
Glad to hear that I may be able to "save" the sand with a bit of work. There's a lot of it and I hate to just dump it!
I would agree with drilling near the top, it seems logical to me (maybe add a 90 degree elbow pointing up with strainer in order to skim the surface). Don't take my word for it though, wait for someone more experienced for a better answer.
I'd do something like this (excuse my poor artistic skills):

As far as the diameter of the hole goes, you'll have to see how big the bulkhead is. As for pipe size, you want to go larger than smaller. You want your drain to be able to handle more water than your pump can pump. I'd personally go with two 1" drains, on on each side, but one would probably work.
 
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