Safest way to add Powder Blue to my DT without QT?

[new180g]

Because my Mimic Tang just recently passed, I have decided to purchase the fish I have always wanted: a Powder Blue Tang. I have ordered a medium (about 3") Powder Blue through my LFS, which comes in this Thursday (I'm excited!). The owner said he will hold the fish for a couple of days to make sure he's healthy, but he doesn't want to hold him longer because it might cause the fish undue stress being in a small tank at the store (no where to hide, people walking by all the time, etc). I don't have a QT, so once I bring him home, I will be adding him right into my DT (after a long slow acclimation, of course).
My main concern is the Powder Blue getting Ich and spreading it to my healthy fish in my DT. Should I ask the owner of the LFS to hold him long enough at his store (2-3 weeks) as if he was quarantining him for me. Or is it safe enough after a couple of days in his store to bring him home to put straight in my DT, before he could become stressed at the store (and get Ich because of that).
Any suggestions?! I really want this fish and protect my DT fish as well!
I appreciate any help anyone has to offer...

 

[dinogeorge]

Hi Nicole,
2 days is not nearly enough time for you to have any idea if he has ick or not. Sometimes those nastly little fellows won't make themselves known for a week or two. (They could be on his gills rather than on the outside, and you won't have any idea they are there.)
Also, keep in mind that most fish stores have a central filter and the water is pumped from tank to tank. If one fish has ick, they are simply pumping into all the other tanks. I know you are tring to do what you think best by introducing him into your tank as quckly as possible, but the end result is often a tank full of sick fish, inlcuding the one you tried to help.
Powder Blues are Ick magnets and if its in the water, he'll get it. A QT is best, (but sometimes we can afford them, or have no room for them) so ignore those who will preach to you about having to have one. If you don't, thenthe next best thing to do is to give him a freshwater dip. This is just my opinion. There are tons of people on this site with just as much, or A LOT more experiance than I have. Some of them will add to this and hopefully give you some good advice. Last thing from me...try your best to get yourseelf a QT. They are really great to have.
Good luck

 

[al mc]

Nicole. This is really tough as Dinogeorge noted. I think his advice is sound if you can't do QT. Another thought...Is you tank fish only (no inverts)?
If so, and you did end up with Ich, you could always do hyposalinity on the
DT. I would also always prefer a separate QT. They are not hard to set up or maintain. Sometimes you can even get used equipment for a small tank
at a bargain. Good luck. Welcome to SWF.com

 

[new180g]

First, thank you so much for replying! It is all very helpful.

I DO have a 16 gal tank that I had as a freshwater setup. There have been no fish in it for about a month because of problems I've had: 1 outbreak of Ich, and persistent algae, I have been debating whether to maintain this freshwater setup and get new fish.
There is freshwater in it, the filter has been running (just a Penguin Bio-Wheel 125) and the heater still maintains the temp. It kind of funny, because it's running just for the decorations! I don't have the light come on to prevent any algae growth, and really...what would be the point as there's nothing to look at.
I suppose I COULD make this tank into a saltwater QT tank. Would I encounter problems because it has been used as a freshwater setup previously? For instance the bacteria in the bio wheel: is it suitable for saltwater? Would all I have to do is take out the rocks and water and just put a cup of sand from my DT in it and refill with water from the DT? If so, when would it be ready to put the Powder Blue in? I could definitely spare a LR from the DT, too...even though the 16 gal. does have sufficient decor in it. If there is any remaining algae on the decor, would it cause problems for saltwater QT?
I know...so many questions! I just want to do this right...for me and all fish involved!

 

[renogaw]

the 16 should be fine, IF you never used meds in it. if you clean it out really well, and use white vinegar as a cleanser, you'd kill off just about anything from the old FW set up.
i personally would change out the biowheel.
you need to let the 16 cycle. Do you have a sponge filter in your DT? i use my old prefilter to my overflow as my bacteria colony. If you don't, grab one and put it over the intake to the HOB filter, then put some live rock into the tank for a while. if you already have the tang coming, keep that rock in there unless you have to medicate the tank. If you do end up having ich, you'll have to keep that rock seperate from everything for up to 6 weeks, but keeping it in a bucket with a powerhead hsould be fine.
the rock will colonize the sponge filter for future use.

 

[new180g]

By the way, my DT is a 125gal reef setup. I don't have too many corals (I'm going slow on that), but I have shrimp and stars, too. Soo I can't ever do anything to that tank that will harm inverts.

 

[dinogeorge]

So is it possible to set up your QT and move your coral and invert into it? Then you can hypo your main tank while your inverts have their own tank. The fish will create a LOT more waste than those inverts, so your bacteria colony will have a better chance of keeping up with the inverts in the QT.
But this would require you to move any live rock that you might have in your main tank. May not work, but its just an idea.

 

[renogaw]

but if the QT is set up, there would be no need to move all the fish over...

 

[dinogeorge]

Originally Posted by renogaw
but if the QT is set up, there would be no need to move all the fish over...
Good point. My understanding is that the QT has not been set up for saltwater yet. So it has no bacteria and whatever goes in it will created a lot of water changes until the tank can cycle. I'm thinking that the coral and inverts will be less of an intial load during that process. I agree with you; it would be easier to move the fish, but without an estalished tank, not sure if it would be the best choice right now. But that may be the only choice...

 

[new180g]

I would rather mess with the inhabitants of the DT as little as possible. (If it aint broke, don't fix it, right?) All the fish and inverts in the DT are fine, so what would be the point of doing hypo in the DT?
All I'm worried about is the possibility of introducing Ich into the DT, especially considering the fact of how suceptible Powder Blues are. I fully understand that a few days being held at the fish store is not enough to indicate if there is any Ich on him. The fish store would have to hold him for at least 3 weeks, but even then he might still have Ich on him that I don't see until he's added to my DT, and then I'm screwed.
I am willing to make my 16gal a QT, so now I am wanting to know when that tank would be ready to put the Powder Blue in it? I could get a new bio-wheel, use sand and water from the DT to kick start the cycle. Would even using some of the bio-balls from the wet/dry be a good idea? How much would I really be cutting down on cycle time by doing all of this? Now I'm feeling that the less time for the Powder Blue at the fish store, the better. But I could probably convince the owner to hold him long enough until my QT is ready.
Oooorr...should I just do the original suggestion and do a freshwater dip on the Powder Blue? Ugh!

 

[ccampbell57]

Here is a quick solution to your 16 gallon QT. Get it scrubbed out, and place sand from your DT in the bottom. If you have any bio balls or anything else with large amounts of bacteria in the bio-wheel.
Once this is done, go buy some AmQuel+ and put that in the tank. This product binds with the ammonia that is required for the bacteria to feed off of during the cycle and makes it non-toxic to the fish. This also lowers the levels of Nitrites and Trates. The fish will be ready to put into the tank right away.
IMO it is the best product of it's kind and it has saved my A$$ many times when getting my QT up in a short period of time. Just be ready to do water changes as needed. Check your readings once a day. Your tank will show signs of ammonia with the AmQuel in it, but that is ok as it is non-toxic to the fish.
I dont do FW dips on fish because of how tramatic it is to them. Your PBT is a delicate fish and will have been transported to more than 5 tanks by the time you get him. The faster you can put him into an environment that will not change, the better for it's survival rate.
I had a PBT and he was a beast. He lasted through everything and finally ironically enough, ich did him in because I waited too long to treat (thinking his ammune system would take care of it). Good luck and make sure that you place the PBT in the QT tank for at LEAST 5 weeks if not more. Gestation period of ich is 6 weeks.
Good luck

 

[new180g]

Thank you all ever so much!
I felt the same about freshwater dips...very traumatic, especially for a likely fragile PBT. It might be a good option if I didn't decide to make my 16gal a QT, which I only decided to do after posting this thread yesterday.
I am going to LFS now to achieve my goal of creating a QT to have all ready for my PBT. Hopefully 5 days of cycling with the AmQuel+, sand and water from my DT, and maybe some bioballs or the filter media from my DT will be good.
How often should I do water changes in the QT? Every 2 weeks (20%) just like I do on my DT?
Hey ccapmbell57...how cool you are in CO, too!

 

[jpc763]

Originally Posted by New180g
Thank you all ever so much!
I felt the same about freshwater dips...very traumatic, especially for a likely fragile PBT. It might be a good option if I didn't decide to make my 16gal a QT, which I only decided to do after posting this thread yesterday.
I am going to LFS now to achieve my goal of creating a QT to have all ready for my PBT. Hopefully 5 days of cycling with the AmQuel+, sand and water from my DT, and maybe some bioballs or the filter media from my DT will be good.
How often should I do water changes in the QT? Every 2 weeks (20%) just like I do on my DT?
Hey ccapmbell57...how cool you are in CO, too!
Go Rockies! OK, I am up in Ft. Collins.
You can change 10-20% daily to maintain your levels. I just set up a QT, put a fish in it and it had a spike. I changed 10-20% daily for 4-5 days to keep Ammonia and Nitrites under control. I was told to make sure the temp, Specific Gravity and pH were the same and add it slowly over an hour or so.
I also used AmQuel, which worked great.
Good luck!

 

[ccampbell57]

Originally Posted by New180g
Thank you all ever so much!
I felt the same about freshwater dips...very traumatic, especially for a likely fragile PBT. It might be a good option if I didn't decide to make my 16gal a QT, which I only decided to do after posting this thread yesterday.
I am going to LFS now to achieve my goal of creating a QT to have all ready for my PBT. Hopefully 5 days of cycling with the AmQuel+, sand and water from my DT, and maybe some bioballs or the filter media from my DT will be good.
How often should I do water changes in the QT? Every 2 weeks (20%) just like I do on my DT?
Hey ccapmbell57...how cool you are in CO, too!
Hell yeah go Rockies!!!! You should be good to go after 5 days of the AmQuel and having the rest of the filtration from your DT.
If I were you, I would do 20% per week. Basically take the water from the DT and replace it in the QT. Your water quality should be impecable this way.
If you are replacing the water in the QT from the DT then you should be able to do even more if you need.
Also, this will be like your acclimation phase and once you think that the PBT is ready, you can just drop him into the DT.

 

[sepulatian]

You will have to do many water changes at first. I am so sorry.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by ccampbell57
Hell yeah go Rockies!!!! You should be good to go after 5 days of the AmQuel and having the rest of the filtration from your DT.
If I were you, I would do 20% per week. Basically take the water from the DT and replace it in the QT. Your water quality should be impecable this way.
If you are replacing the water in the QT from the DT then you should be able to do even more if you need.
Also, this will be like your acclimation phase and once you think that the PBT is ready, you can just drop him into the DT.

It is not quite that easy. If the fish is carrying a parasite then the tank will need to be hypoed.

 

[renogaw]

i would also still acclimate the fish to the tank. while the two tanks may be close salt wise, everything else will be different.

 

[butters]

im doing hypo on a PBT now, and from what ive read. hypo kills the good bacteria you need. i just do regular water changes to keep the levels down.

 

[al mc]

Hypo does not remove the bacteria needed for the nitrogen cycle. That is why the Qt needs to be cycled properly before using, if possible. Things I have noted with hypo.....watch the pH....it can change rapidly since you are using less salt so less buffering capacity. And...protein skimmers are not as effective in hypo environments. jmo

 

[1journeyman]

Using sand from your established tank will help you cycle your QT, but eventually you are going to want to remove it. A QT should be bare bottom to limit the places disease and parasites can live. Also, sand holds medications like copper... just generally easier to run a QT bare bottom.
Running hypo is a display is a bad idea imho. Glad you decided to go a different direction. Hypo can kill all of your beneficial inverts in your sand and live rock.
Skimmers do not work well in hypo tanks because the water is less dense. Skimmers work through the density of saltwater. Lower your salinity and you lower a skimmer's effectiveness.