Salt Water Newbie

[andymi]

All,
This weekend I traded in my old freshwater 55 gallon and got a nice new 70 GAL show tank for Saltwater.
70 Gal Tank w/stand
Wet Dry Filter
Sand
Bio-Sand (supposedly already has bacteria etc)
about 25lbs of Live Rock
And 3 fish..(cannot remember names isnt that sad??)
Anyhow my questions are these.
1. I used tap water as the first bit of water for the tank. I know this is not recommened and I will start using distilled from this point on, is this going to be ok?
2. I was told that since I have the bio-sand which essentially has already been through the cycle I should be ok to add things (even
still I added some inexpensive fish not damsels)
3. Will the tank still go through a cycle with the items I have added?
4. I was told I did not need to clean the wet / dry filter (Aqua Something Aquatics out of Florida is who makes it) is this true?
5. I was told I probably would not need a protein skimmer for the first 90-100 days, is this true?
6. I put the salt in and checked the salinity and it was at about 1.019 right below the green area. Is this just because all the salt has not fully mixed with the water? Should I add more salt and distilled water mixture?
7. And the last of my stupid questions is, right now the tank is still murky from the salt. How long does this normally take to subside and clear up and is it going to harm the fish in any way.
We are wanting this to be more of a reef tank so any advice you can give on what we had done so far would be great. We only bought a couple fish to make sure they lived and such first. Within a couple months we are wanting to start adding some nice reef (things for lack of understanding what we want) to the tank. I know I need to do a lot of reading also. Please let me know what you think.
BTW: I think the sand I added was jamaican play sand or something purchased from the pet store. I believe the bag was around 40lbs and the bio-sand was around 20lbs. Should I have more sand as well?
Thanks,
Andy
[ May 14, 2001: Message edited by: andymi ]

 

[andymi]

No this is not a joke, and the only reason I added things were because the two stores I went into and asked for advice said that it would be ok. I specifically made sure that the lighting system I had would be the right light for the reef tank. I am pretty familiar with Freshwater and the one guy has never steared me wrong yet.
The live rock I kept moist in it's own saltwater with a towel for many hours before placing it in the tank and hours after the wet dry filter had been going. As far as the bio-sand which I believe it is called Live Sand , I was told that would eliminate the cycle completely. I was also told that I only needed 1 Live Rock and actually I got two very large ones. I really appreciate your advice and will keep an eye on the cycle. Do I need to add anything to the tank to help it get rid of anything from the tap water? How will I know if the live rock has been destroyed?
As far as the fish, I can tell you that they are small , they are blueish green in color and were very hardy fish from what the 2nd store told me. The other fish is black and white and was a fairly inexpensive fish also.
Sorry I dont remember the names and I apologize for the newbie questions I was just going by what the two people at the store told me I could do.
Now I am extremely bummed. I dont want to kill anything in the tank. I was just going by advice given to me by people who I thought were experts. I will post later with the lights that i have, I just called the pet store and they said that the fish by describing them to the person and where they were located in the store I have 2 chromis (blue/green color) and 1 Bangai. She also stated that she thinks the cloudy water is probably the sand and not the salt. I stirred the salt before adding the sand and live sand and let the tank run for hours before adding fish. What do you folks think? I just want to get this right.
Thanks again,
Andy
[ May 14, 2001: Message edited by: andymi ]
[ May 14, 2001: Message edited by: andymi ]

 

[krazzydart]

SLOW IT DOWNRead some books, Read somemore this hobby takes a lot of time, money , and patiance(sp) Trey Is right!!! You are going to get burned if you listen to those "PET SHOPS" so called "EXPERTS" they are probally going to bleed you dry,,,,, Their is a BIG,BIG diffrance between Saltwater and Freashwater

[hr]
Where as freash is more "forgiving" and Salt water is not, you also need a few power heads for your tank to help with the water ciculation, also get some better lights.... compacts, VHO's, Halide, just to name a few.... And please READ,READ,READ...... Good Luck

 

[kodi]

Welcome to the board, and the hobby.
As a recent addition to this site, I thought I would share some of my experiences. First, I have been in the hobby for about 20 years so I have some experience, but I must confess these guys/gals that are rated as sharks know their stuff; trust what they have to say. Second, I agree read, read, read. This hobby has become more science than gut over the years and there are some corners you must not cut if you want to be successful.
Best of luck with your new tank.

 

[burnnspy]

Scroll down and read my post;
To all new reef keepers _ break tradition
BurnNSpy

 

[fender]

Where bouts in detroit are you?
I live in the Ypsi/Ann Arbor area and just got started myself. I began buying equip in november and had water in the tank in Feb. Started with damsels in march and things are going great.
This is not to say everything has been perfect. I have gotten a little carryed away now and again but luckily no critters have perished from my mistakes.
Take it slow, research every decision before buying and have fun.

 

[andymi]

Maybe my "newbie-ism" kept me from researching what is in my tap water, but unfortunately Trey, I did not check my tap water or anything before adding it. So if it has chlorine then I possibly did make this "blunder". I guess I will learn from my mistakes and if I need to start over, then that was about $150-$200 mistake. Keep in mind that everything I did was based on advice given to me from people who I thought were knowledgeable. Now that I found this board I have seen that there is a lot more to this than first thought.
I checked the light and the box says it is made by Macro (Taiwan) It has one set of bluish colored lights and another that has white something like typical flourescent lights. I called the store and they said the light is 108 watts total. They named it a "compact" light. They stated where most of the HO (??) and others the lights need to be replaced every 6 months or so where this needs to be replaced around every 1 1/2 years. Just giving you guys the lines I am getting so I can learn the right way from here on out. Hopefully things are still living, I am going to go get a test kit tonight and check everything out. Salinity seems ok at this point. Thanks for all the great help so far, as I want to make sure this tank is done right and will be patient.
BTW: I am from just outside Detroit in Brownstown.

 

[andymi]

OK, I have another question regarding power heads for my tank. Currently I only have one CAP 1800 (BTW: I put up this page for everyone to see exactly what I bought with name brands and links to websites for your comments...http://www.xxxxx.com/saltwater/setup.htm) It also covers the exact step by step process I took to setup the tank to this point.
Anyhow, back to the question, the CAP 1800 is submerged in my wet/dry which then pushes the water back into the tank. Do I need more than this? The tank is approx. 38" in lenght, 18" wide. There seems to be a pretty descent current on the top of the tank at this point but only on the one side. What should I add to keep this from looking like a typhoon, but still keep good circulation?
Please advise.
--Andy

Sorry, links to other sites are a N0,No :|
[ May 14, 2001: Message edited by: BurnNSpy ]

 

[fender]

I would get a couple more power heads to keeps things moving in the tank. 6-9times your tank capacity is what I've heard. For your tank 450gph - 600.
Get two rather than one large. and point them on an angle toward the front in a criss cross fashion.
I am using zoomedic 228's (270gph each) in this fashion. They are supposed to sweep back and forth.... and they do when they feel like it. I have to give them a hand now and again.
Circulation is what keeps O2 in the water and the system stable and most critters find this a great environment. The ocean is always moving. Plus fish need excercise(sp)!
HTH

 

[burnnspy]

I recommend that you buy the following test kits: pH, nitrites, nitrates, ammonia
Salifert Calcium
Lamotte or Dry Tab Phosphates
BurnNSpy

 

[andymi]

I just bought a test kit and it has the tests for Ph, Nitrate, Nitrite and Ammonia. I also checked the salt that I added to my tank after the tap water and it is the Deep Ocean salts that has dechlorinization (sp??) chemicals to remove the chlorine from the water. Just picked up a heater which I did not have also. I got a submersible heater that is set for 78 degrees. What is the best temperature for a mixed Reef and fish tank? I heard the fish like it HOT HOT HOT and the reefs like it around 75. I also picked up two books. One by Tullman or Tullock whatever was suggested on this board. I plan on reading them this evening and I am testing all of my stuff for ammonia and nitrites now to see where I am. I was reading online and it looks like I will probably have a very short ammonia cycle because of that but I should still go through the nitrate / nitrite cycles. Your thoughts? BTW...thanks for all the help, by asking you guys questions then drilling the stores I am getting somewhere. I spoke to a friend of mine who works at a small non-chain pet store who has been doing salt water for about 15 years and he agrees with all of what you guys are saying. Thanks so much!

 

[agtaylor66]

do you have to have a skimmer in salt water tank, what excatly does it do, and i am still reading alot online it seems to be working but everyone has a diffent view on things. thanks again for the support !! good luck to all

 

[ctgretzky9]

Originally Posted by andymi
All,
This weekend I traded in my old freshwater 55 gallon and got a nice new 70 GAL show tank for Saltwater.
70 Gal Tank w/stand
Wet Dry Filter
Sand
Bio-Sand (supposedly already has bacteria etc)
about 25lbs of Live Rock
And 3 fish..(cannot remember names isnt that sad??)
Anyhow my questions are these.
1. I used tap water as the first bit of water for the tank. I know this is not recommened and I will start using distilled from this point on, is this going to be ok?
2. I was told that since I have the bio-sand which essentially has already been through the cycle I should be ok to add things (even
still I added some inexpensive fish not damsels)
3. Will the tank still go through a cycle with the items I have added?
4. I was told I did not need to clean the wet / dry filter (Aqua Something Aquatics out of Florida is who makes it) is this true?
5. I was told I probably would not need a protein skimmer for the first 90-100 days, is this true?
6. I put the salt in and checked the salinity and it was at about 1.019 right below the green area. Is this just because all the salt has not fully mixed with the water? Should I add more salt and distilled water mixture?
7. And the last of my stupid questions is, right now the tank is still murky from the salt. How long does this normally take to subside and clear up and is it going to harm the fish in any way.
We are wanting this to be more of a reef tank so any advice you can give on what we had done so far would be great. We only bought a couple fish to make sure they lived and such first. Within a couple months we are wanting to start adding some nice reef (things for lack of understanding what we want) to the tank. I know I need to do a lot of reading also. Please let me know what you think.
BTW: I think the sand I added was jamaican play sand or something purchased from the pet store. I believe the bag was around 40lbs and the bio-sand was around 20lbs. Should I have more sand as well?
Thanks,
Andy
[ May 14, 2001: Message edited by: andymi ]
1. Tap water is not even good to start with. It may contain copper or be high in phosphates, or other garbage you definately don't want. If you have it tested, you can use it. I know many reefers who use it, but they have it tested periodically, they let their water circulate for 24+ hrs before adding it to tank, and they know what to look and test for.
2. Your tank will most likely cycle regardless of what your LFS said. You added fish that are going to pretty much die. Dont add anything else for at least a few weeks now.
3. Yes, it will probably go through a cycle yet. Depends on the live rock you added as well, and with the fish you added that will most likely die, you'll be getting a good cycle going anyway
4. Absolutley not true. Whoever told you this, go kick them. Canisters, wet drys and their ilk need to be cleaned periodically. They are nitrate factories. How often depends on bio load etc. I have a canister and a wet dry, and I clean each every 2 weeks replacing floss, carbon, and rinsing off the plates etc.
5. Your only good advice so far for the most part, though people add them immediately too. This is a personal/financial decision most of the time .
6. Your salinity is wicked low, you need to be at 1.025. Might as well add some more salt mix to the pot, cant hurt anything at this point

7. not a stupid question at all. It can take a few days for the water to become clear. No science in this. Keep water circulating very well, and keep measuring specific gravity (1.025 is a measurement of specific gravity, not salinity) The fish will most likely be dead within a few days.
My advice: Dont go back to that store. He gave you incredibly poor advice and set you off on a road with poor husbandry skills. To add fish to a tank that the SALT mix is being added to on the same day is cruel, and the complete opposite of what this hobby is about.
At this point, I would now wait at LEAST a month before you add anything that lives. Cycle the tank, learn some more and then go on from there.

 

[latino277]

OK... so far every one here has given you good advise.
1- the 3 fish you have.... may not make it because your tank WILL cycle
2- stop using tap water. go out and get a copper test kit. if you water has copper in it.... you will never be able to keep inverts. copper is poison to them and you would have to start compleatly over. New water, sand, rock, bio-balls. However, if you de-side on a fish only. copper is a very strong medication (THIS IS FOR FISH ONLY).
3- look into RO or RO/DI (REVERSE OSMOSIS or REVERSE OSMOSIS Deionization) filter systems. this is a filter system that purifies your tap water so you can make you salt water. this is the best water to use for you tank. in the mean time. Walmart sells RO water. look into this. this is very important and will save you the headace later!!!
4- Protein skimmer...... dont NEED one. But it will make life easier! I would say that ~90% of the hobbiest her use one. I would try and get the best one that you can afford. the better the skimmer the less problems you'll have and the more stable you system will be
5- LR. since you tank is cycling. I would pick up ... a min of 40#'s more. I have heard that this site sells some really nice rock at a good price.
Welcome to the board and I wish you the best of luck!!!!

 

[latino277]

I just noticed the date on this post..... damn this is old!!!

 

[ctgretzky9]

Originally Posted by latino277
I just noticed the date on this post..... damn this is old!!!
lmfao...Damn Latino! Had we noticed that a bit earlier, i dont think either of us would have spent 10 minutes responding! Looks like anewbie pulled it out of obscurity and set us all off!!!!!
oh well!

 

[jer4916]

your pet store ripped you off, and gave you a mouth full of dirt, and you swollowed, never go back, both of the pet stores in my town are handicap on some level...so i never ask them questinos and i never allow them to tell me anything...i do all my research on here and through books...i buy fish there SOMETIMES ...and then i come home and QT them for 4 weeks before they go in my main tank. Now if i had a decent petstore who QT'd there fish i would be in a better boat...but im not....so please take my advice and listen and read....saltwater fish is VERY different from freshwater...things WILL die if your not watchful. and it not only hurts your pocket book...but since you spend so much time with the animals and caring for them....why they die...it hurts.... so please watchful!...read lots! and make sure you take things SLOOOOOOOOOOOOW, otherwise it'll cost you sooooo much money in the end.
example : i have a 125 reef im cycling right now...started 3 days ago...it'll be 2 months before that tank even sees a coral....and another month/2 months before it'll even see a fish.
this hobby is SLOW but amazing!

 

[latino277]

and.... another one got cought in the 4 yr old trap! lol