SaltwaterKitty's 24g Nano Tank Diary!

[saltwaterkitty]

Hi everyone!!

I’m fairly new to the SWF boards … I have been researching and reading for quite a few months now

and was planning a larger build in the spring but found a steal of a deal on a tank that I could not pass up. Today, I am picking up a 24g Aquapod.

It was an established tank … it will come with 40lbs of live rock with misc coral polyps and mushrooms attached, 25lbs of live sand and the established tank water … for $180 which I thought was a fantastic deal. So now I have thrust myself into the nano world and I’m excited because there’s great company in here!! I will say that I understand that PATIENCE is the name of the game and that only bad things happen fast in this hobby. I’m very excited to learn and am thankful for all of the wonderful resources here.

Obviously, I will not need to cycle the tank although I was really looking forward to that learning curve … will have to save it for my larger tank in the spring.
I’m guessing I can add a CUC fairly soon … I only have a few favorite “must haves” for fish so I am really open to suggestions on what fish are great nano additions. I’m not going to be updating the lighting for a while so suggestions on corals that can work with the standard lighting would also be helpful. Would frogspawn be ok? I think they are beautiful.
I would like to have a bangaii cardinalfish and read that a 15 is the minimum tank size. Thoughts?? Are they better as mated pairs or is one ok by itself?
After establishing a source of copepods, etc I would love to have a mandarin dragonet but I know these fish need LOTS of nourishment so that will be a long way down the road after I feel comfortable that I can maintain it. And of course, a clown (duh). LOL
Any thoughts / input would be greatly appreciated.
Kat

 

[skate020]

Welcome to the boards

thats a bargain
i doubt a frogspawn would be to great under standard lighting. they need quite high output bulbs.
im sure you can be patient with that and just stick with standard corals for time being
fish wise. standard nano fish.
deffinately a clown pair. they are AMAZING
bangaii cardinals will be ok in there too you should get a pair then there'll be alot more outgoing.
manderin, get a refugium before you buy one, in a 24g they'll go through all the pods in a day or two.
there shouldnt be much of a cycle, but there may be a little one due to the tank being moved and stuff. but you should do water tests to make sure
so as far as a stocklist is concerned im thinking maybe:
2x clownfish
2x bangaii cardinals
1x goby of some sort
that'll be a lovelyyy stocklist
if the goby you plan is going to be a manderin, then i think setting up a refugium at some point down the road is very necessary
post some pics

 

[tampashane]

Grats on the great deal. I dont know what kinda stock lighting comes in the aquapod but its prolly the same as the biocube and as far as the frogspawn goes i think mine is doing good and infact it just turned into two. dunno if they split or reproduce either way my one just made a baby. here is a pic of mine however i do have it at the highest point to help with the lighting i guess. dont have a closeup yet but its at the top of the tank kinda behind the rock a little.

 

[marlins76]

I have standard lighting and my frogspawn is doing really well. you should be fine.

 

[saltwaterkitty]

Thank you for the replies and for the info on the frogspawn ... I will have to do some more research to see what my tank can handle!
So last night was a busy night for us ... we got all of our stuff out of the truck and into the house and began cleaning the tank. I did a complete freshwater wash of the sand and scraped the coralline off of the glass and got about 1/3 of it off the back of the tank. I know it's not necessary, just would be nice to look at a clean tank as a new owner so whatever, I will work on it slowly over time if I don't like it.
So I start to look into the buckets with the rock and rubble and as I'm poking around, a huge shadow is lurking about in the bucket and it scared the daylights out of me ... ok, it wasn't huge at all but it was definitely a fish! So, we poured him into the largest container we had which was a 12" tall flower vase, added the heater and threw on the thermometer and put him in there.
Since this purchase included no livestock (well, was supposed to anyways), I was not prepared for his arrival. We ran out to ***** and grabbed salt, a testing kit, etc and got back home and he was doing ok. Temp holding on at 80.5.
After the sand was all washed, I put the rocks back in, the saltwater that came from the tank when it was torn down at 1pm earlier in the day, the fresh salt water he gave me as well and we were still about 3 inches from the top where the wave maker is so I couldn't run the tank overnight since I didn't want the wave maker spraying salt water all over the place. I also was frightened by a hermit crab that was attached to a rock so we are building quite the hitchhiker list. I tested the waters for fun and experience and the amonia was 0, trates and trites were 0 but the ph was 7.8.
This morning, I got some distilled water and added it to the tank as well as the necessary amount of salt and started the tank running. It was running for 3 hours and I checked the levels again ... still identical to last night.
Thoughts on wheter or not this tank will cycle or did the good sand washing really do the trick for removing the bad stuff? How long should I wait between testing again ... if it's going to cycle, how long until you know? There are a few teeeeny tiny white stars clung to the glass and as of this morning, the hermit crab is alive and the polyps on the rocks are opening up nicely.
I'm asking about the cycle because if I'm not going to get one, maybe the damsel can stay? My daughter fell in love and named him Lucky after his mad dash across state lines to be with us so I would rather not bring him to the LFS but if majority here rules that he needs to go to be ok, then he will go, of course.
So here are a few pics ... I look forward to everyone's feedback!!
Gabi scraping the tank ...

A piece of the LR with some coralline and some polyps ...

Another big piece of LR with open polyps ...

Aquascaping ...

With the blues ...

Thanks everyone!!!
Kat

 

[spanko]

Did you transport the rock covered in water? If you did you should have minimal die-off and should not experience much of an ammonia spike. If not then you may experience some ammonia spike, how big cannot be predicted. Have you tested your salinity (Sg)? If that is good, the temp is good then you have some options here.
Seems to me you will have a minimal ammonia spike here if you experience any at all.
Option #1. Take the fish to the fish store for credit if they will offer it. Wait a few days doing testing for ammonia nitrites and nitrates. If you don't see anything, add some fish food to the tank and test for another few days. If you don't see anything in testing then you can start to add some clean up crew.
Option #2. This one is more controversial. In the old days people would put a hardy fish like say, oh I don't know, a Damsel into their new setups to start the biological cycling. Now you will hear the cries of "Oh my, that is cruel, how would you like to swim in a soup of ammonia etc. etc. etc." Well more often than not the fish would survive on on we went.Your decision here is one of, well I moved the tank quickly. I rinsed all of the accumulated gunk out of the sand. I transported the rock under water so there should be only minimal die off if any there. I used some of the original tank water as well as some new. I cleaned the tank out good. I FEEL LUCKY TODAY. So I am going to keep the fish and put it in the tank keeping peace in the family!!! OR I will not take the chance that there is going to be some sort of increase in ammonia in the tank and put the fish through that so I will be prudent and take the fish back and do things slowly at the risk of causing Gabi to hate me. (Which by the way if she doesn't yet give it time she will before she gets old enough to realize that you are okay.)
There are my opinions....

 

[posiden]

Hello,
I read your other thread before this one. I wouldn't keep the yellow tail damsel. Yours is also a beep blue/purple color cause it is stressed. The color will come back once it setles down and has lighting over the top of him. The reason I say don't keep it, is because they are very agressive. They are the most returned fish in the hobbie. Folks buy them cause they are a very pretty fish, they are cheap, and they are hardy. Lots of people buy them to cycle a tank for those reasons as well. If you plan on any gentil fish, I just don't recomend the damsel. If that is all you want is him, then keep it.
If you washed the sand with fresh water then you pretty much killed it. Its going to have to rebuild all the micro fauna and such.
Was the LR keep in water the whole time during the move?
The coaline algae on the back of your tank that is still there will all go white like the other stuff. It can't handel being exposed to air very well.
How is the watre level in the back of the tank? This style of tank when the pump is not running will have a lower water level in it. When running it will pump water from the back and into the display side leaving the back not at the same water height. Sounds wierd but, the back is your "sump" and the water level back there will rise and fall with the top off water and evaporation. I am not totaly up to speed on your tank but there should be a water level indicator on it in the back area. I have the Bio Cube and my level indicator in on the outside in the section where the pump is at.
If the hermit is alive and doing ok, I wouldn't change anything.(maybe the water level we will see about that) Let it run, keep an eye on the water parameters. If the LR was not exposed to air for to long and alowed to dry out then the cycle should not be evident. Time will tell though. It is better to error on the safe side. I myself would just watch the crab and the polyps for a while. This will give you time to read on other fish, and see other tanks. You can then decide which way you want to go with the tank. What fish you want, any more corals, ect...
Your polyps will be fine in there with the lighting you have. So no worries about them. They will also be a good indicator for you about your tanks water. If they stay open and happy, then things should all test fine.
Take your time, don't rush anything into the tank. You will be very glade you took your time later on. Fish additions should be spread out to allow the biological filter to catch up to the new demands of it.
Welcome to SWF. Have fun and stay dry.

 

[saltwaterkitty]

She's 12 ... she's bordering the I Hate You's at this point.
OK ... the rock WAS covered during transport and was out of water literally for as long as it took to put it into the buckets and then back into the tank so I do feel good there.
If there was going to be a spike ... when might someone possibly expect it?
Kat

 

[saltwaterkitty]

Originally Posted by Posiden
http:///forum/post/3175473
The reason I say don't keep it, is because they are very agressive. They are the most returned fish in the hobbie. Folks buy them cause they are a very pretty fish, they are cheap, and they are hardy. Lots of people buy them to cycle a tank for those reasons as well. If you plan on any gentil fish, I just don't recomend the damsel. If that is all you want is him, then keep it.
Its not all we want, wasn't even on my list ... i'm interested in a pair of bangaii cardinalfishes, a pair of clowns and i hadn't gotten much further than that ... except a mandarin in a years time, lol
If you washed the sand with fresh water then you pretty much killed it. Its going to have to rebuild all the micro fauna and such. good thing or a bad thing?
Was the LR keep in water the whole time during the move? YES
The coaline algae on the back of your tank that is still there will all go white like the other stuff. It can't handel being exposed to air very well.
How is the watre level in the back of the tank? This style of tank when the pump is not running will have a lower water level in it. When running it will pump water from the back and into the display side leaving the back not at the same water height. Sounds wierd but, the back is your "sump" and the water level back there will rise and fall with the top off water and evaporation. I am not totaly up to speed on your tank but there should be a water level indicator on it in the back area. I have the Bio Cube and my level indicator in on the outside in the section where the pump is at.
I didn't see a water level indicator but I also wasn't looking for one ... I will have to look at this more closely later and post what I find this afternoon.
If the hermit is alive and doing ok, I wouldn't change anything.(maybe the water level we will see about that) Let it run, keep an eye on the water parameters. If the LR was not exposed to air for to long and alowed to dry out then the cycle should not be evident. Time will tell though. It is better to error on the safe side. I myself would just watch the crab and the polyps for a while. This will give you time to read on other fish, and see other tanks. You can then decide which way you want to go with the tank. What fish you want, any more corals, ect...
Your polyps will be fine in there with the lighting you have. So no worries about them. They will also be a good indicator for you about your tanks water. If they stay open and happy, then things should all test fine. As of right now, 80% of them are open and looking good ... I will definitely watch them.
Take your time, don't rush anything into the tank. You will be very glade you took your time later on. Fish additions should be spread out to allow the biological filter to catch up to the new demands of it.
Welcome to SWF. Have fun and stay dry.

THANK YOU!!!

 

[posiden]

Originally Posted by SaltWaterKitty
http:///forum/post/3175477
She's 12 ... she's bordering the I Hate You's at this point.
OK ... the rock WAS covered during transport and was out of water literally for as long as it took to put it into the buckets and then back into the tank so I do feel good there.
If there was going to be a spike ... when might someone possibly expect it?
Kat
Hard to say. You transported the rock correctly, so I would say you probly wont see one. Like spanko said, wait a couple of days and see if anything shows. A little bit of food for the hermit that is in there and wait a few more days. If you don't see anything you can look into a fish.
If it were me I would not put a fish in there for one week. That is if all the testing comes out right.
As mentioned though, the free fish can go in right now if you want. Just watch the water and do any water changes if needed to bring down any high test numbers.
You can always put the damsel in there and let things settel in for a while. Just be prepaired to take all the rock work apart to catch the little guy. They are a PITA to catch. This will give you a fish to watch.

 

[saltwaterkitty]

So, I have had the tank running since Thursday night ... things are going very well from what I can tell.
The first update that I would like to give is on the hitchhiking damsel ... I chose Spanko's option #2 ... Lucky is now in the tank. I wasn't feeling lucky, I was feeling confident (hopefully there's a difference? LOL). What I really was feeling ... was bad for him in the flower vase that was his temporary home ... no filtration, no flow

... I just felt he had a better chance in the tank since my levels had all been 0 ... ph is a little low at 7.8.
He was very purple and almost see-through if that makes sense ... and hearing that he was that color because he was stressed made me stressed so into the tank he went ... and all I can say is WOW ... now I know what color a yellow-tail damsel SHOULD BE.

Here he is after just a day and a half in the tank ... (can't get a close up ... he's a bit skiddish and hides whenever there is any movement in the room. I am sneaking this pic from the kitchen on serious zooooooooooom!).

Thankfully, my levels are all zero still ... here's todays readings ... ph is still at 7.8.

What has to happen for the ph to increase on its own?
I'm guessing that by 4 days with no traces of any amonia, there probably won't be any cycle.
Here are a few pics of some other things in the tank ... I mentioned that I thought this little dude was a hermit crab but what would I know ... he's a little red dude in a shell so here he is ... is he a hermit crab? by the way, he is still doing great ...

Here is a pic of a mushroom from the top of the tank ... any idea what kind?? There are a few bigger ones but they are under that big bridge piece in the rock work so I can't get a pic right now ...

It looks like two different types of polyps .. they are a burgundy and some are all the same color, others have a slight greenish/yellow to the center ... any ideas on an ID?

So I'm guessing it might be ok to invest in a cuc pretty soon? I will probably give it a few more days ... suggestions for a 24g?
Thanks everyone!
Kat

 

[socalnano24]

Your ph will probably not increase on it's own. Most add a ph buffer periodically to being their ph up. Try to get it to a minimum of 8.1. However this may take several days as you don't want a sudden jump in ph.
5 or 6 hermits should be a good start, along with 4 nassarius snails and 4 cerith snails.
Maybe a week after those go in you can get a flame shrimp or cleaner shrimp.

 

[saltwaterkitty]

Thanks for the response ... I saw a PH buffer kit in ***** but it was for freshwater ... does it matter what type of water its for? It includes a freshwater testing kit but I already have the sw testing kit in my master kit.
Kat

 

[redsea]

Great looking tank so far!

 

[saltwaterkitty]

Originally Posted by redsea
http:///forum/post/3176557
Great looking tank so far!

Thanks ... needs some color pretty soon!!
Kat

 

[socalnano24]

I don't know whther there is a difference between a freshwater ph buffer and a marine buffer. But IMO try to use products formulated for marine set ups. Especially since ph is also based on multiple parameters in a saltwater tank beyond just alkalinity.

 

[saltwaterkitty]

Originally Posted by SocalNano24
http:///forum/post/3176569
I don't know whther there is a difference between a freshwater ph buffer and a marine buffer. But IMO try to use products formulated for marine set ups. Especially since ph is also based on multiple parameters in a saltwater tank beyond just alkalinity.
Thanks!! Heading to LFS now so I will see what they have ... ***** was closer but I'll make the drive for what I need.
Kat

 

[posiden]

Please don't just add PH buffer into your tank. PH is a funny parameter. Test your ALK. The PH is related to other things besides just alk but, you don't want to buffer anything if the levels are where they need to be. If that is the case then buffer isn't going to fix anything. You need to look at other options.
Get your self the Reef tests. You can get the API tests like you have now or get another type. But I wouldn't us a buffer if I didn't know the water parameters.
Read this please.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...e2002/chem.htm

 

[posiden]

With a tank that has a lid on it, you will not have as much of a chance of proper gas exchange. A small skimmer will help greatly with that. You also right now, IMO don't have anything in there to create any oxygen to help out the PH. Ie..macro algae like cheato. Also testing the PH mid way through the time frame when the lights are on is probly the best time to check the PH. It changes during the different hours of the day. So pick a time and test it at that time or as close to that time as you can each day that you want to test the PH.
This is just a snipit from the link. HTH.
Low pH Due to High Indoor Carbon Dioxide
High indoor carbon dioxide can also apparently lead to low pH problems in many tanks. Respiration by people and pets, the use of un-vented appliances burning natural gas (e.g., ovens and stoves) and the use of CaCO3/CO2 reactors can lead to high indoor carbon dioxide levels. The level of carbon dioxide can easily be more than twice that of exterior air, and this excess can substantially lower the pH. This problem is especially severe in newer, more airtight homes. It is unlikely to be a problem in homes like mine where you can feel the wind blowing around old window frames.
Many aquarists have found that opening a window near the tank can result in a significant rise in pH within a day or two. Unfortunately, those aquarists living in colder climates cannot readily open windows in the winter. Some have found it useful in these situations to run a pipe or tubing from the outside to the air input of a skimmer, where fresh, exterior air is rapidly mixed with the tank water.
Finally, the use of limewater in these situations is also appropriate. In fact, limewater may be more optimally used in this situation because the tank would be less likely to experience the undesirably high pH that sometimes accompanies limewater use. While limewater is the alkalinity supplement most potent at raising pH, other high pH additives would also suffice. Supplements based on carbonate, for example, would be very useful in this situation, while bicarbonate would not be. As a commercial example, the original B-ionic would be better than the newer version. For home brews, washing soda (sodium carbonate) would be better than baking soda (sodium bicarbonate).
Low pH Due to Low Alkalinity
Low alkalinity can also lead to low pH. For example, if alkalinity is not supplemented as fast as it is removed by calcification, the pH will likely drop. This drop will happen with all alkalinity supplementation schemes, but will be most observable using schemes that do not themselves raise pH (like CaCO3/CO2 reactors or bicarbonate). In this situation, the obvious solution is to add more alkalinity in some fashion.

 

[saltwaterkitty]

Thank you for the information ... that will definitely be tonights read.
I did not buy simply a ph buffer - what was recommended to me from my LFS was B-Ionic so I did buy that ... I also bought a small skimmer ... so hopefully with these small changes, things will gradually get to where they need to be.