Sick fish/ QT still not ready

[hobbes]

After searching Houston for a refractometer I came up with none. So, I finally ordered one online this morning, but it will take two to four business days before I get it. Even if i did have one right now I am still faced with the issue of my QT is still cycling. I did like I read here to do with using the display water for the Qt. I added 20 lbs of live rock too, in hopes that this will speed up the process.
Now I am faced with the crisis that my yellow eye tang and my angel both seem to have ich again. Since I dont have a refractometer yet, QT is still cycling, I can't do copper in the display and everyone seems to say that nothing else works; do I have any more options or are my fish doomed?
Another thing that is concerning my is yellow eye tang seems too have open cuts on both sides of his lower body.
Any help would be appreciated.

 

[elfdoctors]

Live rock cannot stay in the treatment tank. If it does, it will convert to base rock.
If the fish are doing poorly, you may not have a choice but to use an uncycled tank. This is more dangerous. If the fish are still eating and swimming around okay, you can usually wait a few days to be further along in the cycle.
Do you think the cuts on your YT's body are from aggression from tank mates? Any chance of getting a pic?

 

[hobbes]

I only have the live rock in there temporarily. I will remove it when I place the fish in there. I am just hoping that it will speed up the cycle process.
I have been trying to take a picture of my yellow eye but he so fast. I will try again.
All fish are still eating well. My two clown fish show no signs at all of ich. My flame angel had a white spot on his lip (honestly I am not even sure if it was ich or not). It is gone today. The only thing that I really see on him is on his fins and that doesn't even really protrude. It really looks like more of a discoloration. My tang looks the worse. All day, he goes from one side of the tank to the other, stopping regularly to what looks like stretching, where he spreads out his fins and then goes back to swimming. He does this every few seconds. Sorry, it hard for me to describe. The open sores are not from the other fish. I am sure of that. He is the aggressive one by far. Although, that has not been the case lately. He has simmered down.
I will add this too. I took my water in to my lfs on saturday because I dont have a test for alkalinity. It was at 100. She told me to buffer it for 5 days. I know this may sound stupid, but I thought that the salt mix was suppose to keep all that stable. Every time I do a water change my reading go off. Do I need to buffer every time I do a water change ( I use the coralife salt)? What kind of effect does that have on the fish being so low?

 

[beth]

What are your water readings at this point? Ammonia and nitrite?

 

[hobbes]

QT: ammonia=0
nitrite=.25
ph= 8.0
nitrate= 5.0
Display: ammonia= 0
nitrite= 0
ph= 8.2
nitrate= 5.0

 

[beth]

hobbes, the "spreading out of fins" you mention in regards to the yellow tank is quite normal tang behavior. Sorta like when we strech our legs. When fish attempt to scratch you will see erratic darting with the fish shimming or attempting to scratch on the sand or a rock.
Do you see any ich on this fish at the moment? Did you add a couple of cubs full of sand from your display into the QT? How big is your QT and how many fish do plan to put in to it?
Is your display a FOWLR or a reef tank?

 

[hobbes]

Sadly I dont have any live sand just crushed coral. Should I still use that?
There is no ich on any of the fish at this moment. They had ich about 3 weeks ago. I moved them to a 10g QT. I ended up putting them back in the display because my QT went through a huge cycle. My nitrite was through the roof. I did use the display water for the QT. I was treating them with Quick Cure which I know doesn't solve the problem but I was desperate and I did not have a refractometer (hopefully it will be here soon). I have since bought a bigger QT, 20g, used water from display, and put some live rock in there temporarily till i get my refractometer in the mail.
I have two tomato clowns, one yellow eye tang, and one flame angel.
The yellow eye is the only one that has problems right now. He has two cuts on both sides of his lower body near his back fin. It looks a little better this evening.
What effects does it have on the fish if my alkalinity and ph were off? Any idea why alk and ph would constantly be going up and down. This is a problem that I have been going through for a while now. I thought the salt mix kept that stable.

 

[beth]

Your pH looks fine and that is all that matters for fish. Alk, you always need to be adjusting this using buffers. And, this is mainly a concern in reef tanks. Alk really is not a concern here with the fish. What salt are you using....they are not all the same, and some will do better than others. Bottom line, you need to buffer as needed, buy your pH looks good. When you begin hyposalinity you will need to have a buffer product on hand as well as plenty of pH tests. Fresh water tends to be spare of pH, it is basically neutral, thus, you will need to bring the fresh water up to the pH level that your fish are used to.
Are those "cuts" you are seeing on thet tang actually wounds? Are you sure they are open? Do you have a magnifying glass and can you make sure of that? Can you post a pic?
Go ahead and put 3 cups of crushed coral in your QT. Take it from the surface of your display.

 

[hobbes]

The wounds have healed somewhat today. I am sure that it was an open wound. Part of his skin was pulled back. I have been trying to take a picture of him but my camera is not fast enough. Every picture comes out blurry. I had noticed little black scratch marks on his body few days ago that have gone away now. All that is left is what i discribed earlier.
I use coralife salt. At some point, later on, I want to do a mini-reef. Should I not use this salt if I do a mini-reef. I know it is kinda off the subject but I seem to get a lot of brown algea. I just bought a new coralife light 4 x 65 watt, I know that has much to do with the brown algea, but does the salt too?
Thanks for your help

 

[beth]

Well, what do you mean by brown algae, is it diatoms or crynobacteria?
Look into the Oceanic salt. Its good for reefs, has all the buffers and calcuium you need, and it is packaged in very hand jugs.

 

[hobbes]

This is the first time that I have posted a picture, so hopefully this works. This is of my tang. This is the cut that I was telling you about. What do you think it is?

 

[hobbes]

I know the picture is not real good but this is the best picture that I could get. It is on both sides of his body at the same place.

 

[hobbes]

Thank you for the salt recommendation. I will look into that. The brown algea happened immediately after I got this new light. Would that be diatoms? I bought two turbo snails to kinda help out with the algea. I also have cut back on my hours. Hopefully that will help.
Thanks Beth

 

[beth]

Yes that is a wound or sore. Is it healing? It looks like aggression.
Is the algae really dull brown and not brown red? Does it easly get displaced, say, if you stir up your sand, or is sheet-like, stringy? Is it mostly in the sandbed? Snails really don't fair well in beds with crushed coral. They grains are too sharp for them.
What are your phosphate and nitrate readings?
What are your water readings in the QT now? Did you add the crushed coral? What do you have in your main tank? LR, how many lbs? etc?

 

[hobbes]

It does seem to be healing. It seemed strange to me that he had that exact same scratch on the other side of his body. When I first got him, he seemed to have lines on him like the pics that you posted on the sticky "Diseased fish", HLLE but then it all went away and then this appeared. He is the aggressive one although that has subsided as of late.
The algae does get displaced easily. I can just wipe it with my hand. It is mostly on the sandbed and live rock.
In the tank I have 50 lbs of live rock (it will be 70 when I put the live rock from my QT in the display). Filtration: Fluval 304 and emperor 400. Skimmer: seaclone 100. Bad choices, I know. Learn the hard way sadly.
I really wish I would have gotten the live sand. I feel like I am kinda stuck with the crushed coral now though. Poor snails. They have spent all there time on the live rock since I got them.
Display nitrate is at: no more than 5.0. I don't have a tester for Phosphate. I need a new test kit if you have any recommendations. Something that is easy to read. I have a hard time distinguishing the different colors on the test kit that I have now.
QT is about ready. Nitrite is almost completely down. Still waiting for my refractometer to come in the mail. Question though, do I put the fish in the QT regardless if they do not show any signs of ich. I know that ich is a cycle and it comes back but should I wait and see if it comes back or not?

 

[beth]

I would normally say QT the fish, but with the uncycled tank, I say wait til you have to to begin the hypo.
the crushed coral, will be a major problem for sand smails, stars, any sand detritivore really. I say, if you can, bite the bullet and ditch the crushed coral. CC also will contribute to nitrates because of its inefficiency as a filter.

 

[hobbes]

Well, I really want to get a starfish at some point too. I hate the thought of having to remove that CC but I guess I will do that. One last question, by putting in live sand, will it restart a cycle? Should I take out the snails if I do this?

 

[beth]

Once the fish go over to the QT, that would be a good time to move out the cc. Just put rocks and snails, inverts into a large rubbermaid or 2 that has some water movement with a small PH, then you can begin the project of removing the cc and replacing it with lr.
If you use most lr, you should not have much of a problem with cycle. However, if you use dry sand, then you will be starting over basically. Try to get out any sand critters you can find in the cc so that you can preserve them for the new tank. This will not be a chore, it will be like setting up your tank again. If you plan things out before you get started, you can be done with it in just a couple of hrs.