Size of Tank to Start With

turningtim

Active Member
Lighting, MH= metal halide, VHO very high output, PC power compact, NO normal output. VHO,PC,NO are all flourecent (SP?).
GPH= gallons per hour. Measurement you need to know for certain corals. Also Turnover rate is important, How many times does you system turnover the tank size. 10x,20x,30x........
Skimmers are stand alone pcs of equpment and are probably the single most important thing to buy. With the proper amount of LR/LS and a good skimmer thats all the filtration you need. A HOB filter does come in handy sometimes but are not very good for SW tanks by themselves.
More later. Anymore Q's?
Tim
 

fishtk75

Member
Originally Posted by Joyful23
I don't understand about skimmers...is this connected to the filtering system someway or is it a stand alone thing? Now for filtering...I don't understand this at all. I have had freshwater in the past so I know about regular hang-on-the-back filters, but as far as the pipes coming out and all that, I haven't a clue. :notsure: I usually catch on pretty quickly if I can just see a diagram or picture or something. I'm one of those who need to see it or do it to learn! LOL. As far as lighting goes, I think I "get" MH lighting, meaning I understand that it's best if you want corals, etc. (which eventually I do) But, do some people use like half MH half another type? If you have a 72" tank do you need to buy 72" lighting kit? Do you need blowers with MH lighting? and on and on. My questions are endless, but I am being patient and reading my little heart out! :cheer: I am on my third book, conscientious marine aquariast and I have started to get on here and read all the post. I just want to take my time and do it right. From what I see on here, I think too many are getting in a big hurry and not being patient enough. I'm usually not a very patient person, but I know this is going to require ALOT of patients!!!
A sump is a small tank that sits under the main tank in the cabinet that hold the water coming from the over flow box.
Skimmers are as turningtim said you do not use one in freshwater only for saltwater they sit in the sump tank pumping water and sucking air in making a lot of very small bubbles, the bubbles pick up all extra organic waste in the water in a clear container as it goes around in there it bubbles up to a cup sit on top and green looking waste comes out in the cup.
Do you need blowers with MH lighting? and on and on yes to blow the high heat that come off of them.
Now you do not have to go with MH you can go with VHO lamps to spread out the heat if heat will be a problem were you are going to put the tank.
Here is a picture I found that may help it but show a hang on overflow box on back of tank but it shows the sump under the tank.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/...9775gallon.JPG
 

joyful23

Member
I just wanted to give an update. I did my research yesterday and visited 4 LFS to price new set ups. The best deal I found was a 120G, stand, refugium, a really good skimmer, pc lights, powerheads, LR, LS...basically everything to get me going for $1500!? Is this too good to be true? This was actually the best place of the four. The manager showed me a refugium and explained how everything worked. She spent over an hour with me showing me supplies and such. So now that I have a visual, I understand a lot better. Their tanks were very clean with no floaters. She also suggested setting up a quarintine tank. The others said that it wasn't necessary, to just get a good cleaner shrimp and that if the fish got ich or anything that they would clean them up? The others also had floaters and decaying fish
Anyway...what a learning experience.
 

stanlalee

Active Member
Keep in mind the bigger you go while the more forgiving it will be at the same time the more costly and detication it will take. Reef lighting for a 100 gallon tank will cost considerably more, water changes will cost more, stocking it will cost more, everything will cost more not just in the beginning but all the time.
Also doing a rountine 10-20% water change on a 30 gallon tank is alot easier than doing it on a 100 gallon. cleaning the glass, equipment ect will all be more time consuming and chances are they'll be alot more equipment to service so if you dont feel you'll be deticated or become bored or disinterested after the initial excitement wears off you'd do better off starting with a 55 gallon. I just have a 30 gallon and I dont think a day or two goes by when my hands dont get wet from doing something to the tank wether its cleaning glass, water testing, spot feeding a coral, rearranging a rock ect. If you arent sure I think a 55gallon is a happy medium.
 

fishrule

Member
The only thing I can suggest you do is, get a list of the parts your getting for the 120g tank. (Such as Names, Models, and Specs of the equipment)
You will want to make sure they are selling you to correct stuff to run the 120g...
I know my LFS sure didn’t make sure I had everything I needed for my 100g tank...

- How much water flow will the $1,500.00 setup get you?
- How big is the refugeum?
- What type of pumps are they?
- What type of skimmers?
- How many Lbs of Live Rock?
- How many Lbs of Live Sand?
- How many Watts of PC lighting?
- Etc...
At least you will be able to make sure you aren’t getting short changed on what you “Really” need to properly run the 120g tank...I know I won’t spend a ton of money on anything for my tanks without running all the details
and specs
by the experts on this forum first...
:happyfish
 

joyful23

Member
Originally Posted by Stanlalee
Keep in mind the bigger you go while the more forgiving it will be at the same time the more costly and detication it will take. Reef lighting for a 100 gallon tank will cost considerably more, water changes will cost more, stocking it will cost more, everything will cost more not just in the beginning but all the time.
Also doing a rountine 10-20% water change on a 30 gallon tank is alot easier than doing it on a 100 gallon. cleaning the glass, equipment ect will all be more time consuming and chances are they'll be alot more equipment to service so if you dont feel you'll be deticated or become bored or disinterested after the initial excitement wears off you'd do better off starting with a 55 gallon. I just have a 30 gallon and I dont think a day or two goes by when my hands dont get wet from doing something to the tank wether its cleaning glass, water testing, spot feeding a coral, rearranging a rock ect. If you arent sure I think a 55gallon is a happy medium.

I've had a 55 gallon before (for fresh) and I'm just afraid that I will be sorry that I didn't go bigger in the long run. And then I would have a big expense again to upgrade. I'm still doing a lot of research and I'm not rushing into anything until I'm sure. I appreciate your input. I will keep you posted.
 

joyful23

Member

Originally Posted by FishRule
The only thing I can suggest you do is, get a list of the parts your getting for the 120g tank. (Such as Names, Models, and Specs of the equipment)

You will want to make sure they are selling you to correct stuff to run the 120g...
I know my LFS sure didn’t make sure I had everything I needed for my 100g tank...

- How much water flow will the $1,500.00 setup get you?
- How big is the refugeum?
- What type of pumps are they?
- What type of skimmers?
- How many Lbs of Live Rock?
- How many Lbs of Live Sand?
- How many Watts of PC lighting?
- Etc...
At least you will be able to make sure you aren’t getting short changed on what you “Really” need to properly run the 120g tank...I know I won’t spend a ton of money on anything for my tanks without running all the details
and specs
by the experts on this forum first...
:happyfish
Good idea! I will try to get all the specifications tomorrow! that way I can list the items on here and see what everyone thinks. thanks!!!
 

edwar050

Member
A 120 is quite a bit for a beginner and I agree with XOXO. Some of the nicest stuff I have seen is DIY often costly but sometimes not. You can pick up some good used skimmers out there, got my aqua c ev for 100$. This is the same for MH lighting. DIY lighting kits are pretty nice but IMAO if you dont have the hardware and extra parts for DIY its not worth it. I have stocked up my 120 with tons of rock when people were taking down there tanks. Probably the best time to buy used equipment as well. You might be better looking at somebody selling a 75 reef for 1000$ with some nice equipment.
 

popnfrresh

Member
Originally Posted by Joyful23
I don't understand about skimmers...is this connected to the filtering system someway or is it a stand alone thing? Now for filtering...I don't understand this at all. I have had freshwater in the past so I know about regular hang-on-the-back filters, but as far as the pipes coming out and all that, I haven't a clue. :notsure: I usually catch on pretty quickly if I can just see a diagram or picture or something. I'm one of those who need to see it or do it to learn! LOL. As far as lighting goes, I think I "get" MH lighting, meaning I understand that it's best if you want corals, etc. (which eventually I do) But, do some people use like half MH half another type? If you have a 72" tank do you need to buy 72" lighting kit? Do you need blowers with MH lighting? and on and on. My questions are endless, but I am being patient and reading my little heart out! :cheer: I am on my third book, conscientious marine aquariast and I have started to get on here and read all the post. I just want to take my time and do it right. From what I see on here, I think too many are getting in a big hurry and not being patient enough. I'm usually not a very patient person, but I know this is going to require ALOT of patients!!!
Contientious marine aquarist by robert fenner is an excellent book. Its great to see you researching the topic before you just run out and buy. Patience is the best practice here. When something doesnt go right dont just tear down the tank and give up. it is better to wait instead of stocking it right away and crashing everything.
My advice.
1. For your first tank dont worry about doing a full blown reef. Get used to just having fish and taking care of them. Feeding them, acclimating them, tinkering with your equipment, getting used to all of it. DO NOT RUSH INTO IT!
2. Lighting - Although everyone here seems to be pushing MH they are not for beginners. They can and often will heat your tank, then youll def need a chiller. You need heavy ballasts for them and they are usually if not all the time external and are usually mounted off of your ceiling. (hung) Start your first tank with PC (Power Compacts). They will allow you to run a fish and mobile invert tank (Crabs,snails, shrimp, lobsters) and in the future you can also run lower intensity corals. (mushroom anenomes). IMO you should start with PC.
3. Tank size - Although 55s are nice they are too shallow. 75 and 90's usually have the same footprint (48" x 18"). The difference is 75g is 48" x 18" x 20" while a 90 is 48" x 18" x 24". I would start out with a 75g. IF you decide in the future to use corals a shallower tank will allow you to get away with power compacts. The salt in the water along with many other things will deflect light. Drilled/Reef Ready will be nice but not a necessity. You can always place a "sump" above your main tank or get a hang on overflow (i wouldnt recommend hang on) Reef ready , unless you lower the water line will only mean you have to plumb the tank. Only more difficult. That choice is up to you. Reef ready needs plumbing, return pump, extra tank/sump.
4. Skimmer - Research the best skimmer and do NOT skimp on this. A good protein skimmer will give you less headaches down the road. I have a turboflotor 1000 Multi. This allows hang on tank, stand alone or in sump placement. A good protein skimmer will often cost 200$+ brand new. Try to buy used and make sure it is in good working condition from the buyer. Check the classifieds section here. A lot of good stuff. There are a couple of different designs. You have different placement ( HOB/Hang On Back , stand alone , in sump , in tank) , impeller type (needle wheel, venturi , airstone, and another i cant think of atm) , co/counter current , vortex , etc. The list goes on. Needle wheels seem to get the best air bubble size.
Cont...
 

popnfrresh

Member
5. Substrate / decorations - You can use a variety of different substrates. Gravel, rocks, crushed coral , sand. IMO do not use anything other than sand. gravel and rocks are not calcerous in nature and may leach compounds into the water. Crushed coral is known to let deritus and wastes into it and be hard to get out. Plus a lot of the livestock seems to do better in sand. Now you can goto the store and buy live sand(VERY VERY VERY expensive) or buy southdown or oldcastle sand from Home depot. Technically you can buy any sand as long as you test it before. Take some vinegar place it on sand. If it bubbles it is calcerous in nature. Make sure you wash out the "play sand" before you place it in your tank or it will be very cloudy, possibly for weeks. Take a rubbermaid tub and just wash it out. Live rock is excellent. I would not use lava rock as that is not calcerous in nature and may leach compounds into your tank. Check the classifieds section as well. People are selling some decent rock on there for as little as 2$ a lb. Try to get about .75-1.5 lbs per gallon of water.
6. water flow - For a fish only tank about 10x water movement is good. You will use the return line from sump and powerheads and other pumps to get this.
7. Test kits - Get a good test kit. There are some ncie electronic kits also that test ec/tds/temp/ph/orp. (electric conductivity/total disolved solids/temp/ph/oxidation reductionpotential) If not salifert makes good test strips. get at very least ammonia/nitrite/nitrate a thermometer and a refracometer ( about 100$ new). dont waste your time with a swing arm meter.
8. GFCI - Def get a ground fault circuit interupter. Could end up saving your life later.
9. Filters - Hang on filters are nice. I use AC 70's (AC300) they are easy to clean, cheap, and hold mechanical and media. I clean them out once a week to make sure they are clean( get deritus out.) CONT LATER
10. Information - Check the archive as there is a lot of good information on there. DO NOT always trust people on the internet. Everyone thinks they are experts. Make sure more than one person says something before you trust it. Bob fenners book is excellent. DO NOT always trust your LFS (local fish store). Yes they may know basics but they are a buisness and will always try to sell you something you dont need or dont care (***** / petsmart {I can say this as i used to work there and thats the way it was. IM NOT BASHING THEM SO DO NOT BRING THIS UP PPL!!}) The mods on this site are very helpful and know alot. Trust them.
Continued later... im out of time. Also if anyone else has any arguments with the info i posted please let me know.
 

edwar050

Member
Its funny how everybody generall says start out with the largest tank you can afford. Most newcomers dont realize the overall costs of fowlr's let alone reef tanks. Just becasue you make 5 figures a year dosent mean you should start with a 300 gallon reef tank-
I think you first need to decide whether you are going reef or fowlr. Then decide on how many tanks you might want to have in the future. If you choose fowlr you should def. go with a larger tank 125+. If going with a reef a smaller tank may be more managable say a 75. My favorite reef tank I have seen thus far was a 30 cube.
 
S

sand125

Guest

Originally Posted by Joyful23
LOL...OK, like I said I'm new to this soooo, what is MH lighting? :notsure:

this might help you.....
How much light do I need?
The amount of light required depends on what type of livestock you want to keep. A very colorful selection of corals can be grown under two VHO fluorescents, or four RO (regular output) fluorescents covering the length of your aquarium. Examples of corals that will do well under this scenario are mushroom anemones, bubble tip anemones, bubble coral, zooanthids, star polyps and other polyp colonies. If you would like a greater variety of species, and possibly a more natural looking aquarium, metal halide or a metal halide/fluorescent combination would be more desirable. Metal halides will give the water column the same glitter effect as the sun, and also enable your system to support higher light loving corals (e.g. most Acropora sp.). As a rough guideline, a low to medium light system uses 2-5 watts of light per gallon, and a medium to high light system uses 5-10 watts per gallon. Corals requiring low light can be kept in high light systems, but may have to be positioned accordingly.
How many metal halides do I need for my sized tank?
The quantity of metal halide bulbs is first determined by applying the "watts per gallon" guideline (see question/answer above), and then by the length of your tank. For evenness of light color across the length of the aqarium, approximately one metal halide per two feet of tank length is suggested. For example, a 55-gallon regular (48" long) could easily accommodate two metal halides, but a 55-gallon hexagon (24" long) would only accommodate one metal halide. If evenness of light is not necessarily required or desired, a 6-foot tank may be maintained with only two metal halides, resulting in "shadier" zones toward the ends.
What is color temperature?
Color temperature, or degrees Kelvin (°K), is a number assigned to a bulb to describe the color of light it emits. The lower the number the warmer or more to the orange/yellow side of the light spectrum is its appearance. The higher the number the cooler or more to the blue side of the light spectrum.
Here are some °K examples and their corresponding color descriptions:
3000Kyellowish
5000Knoon sun
10000Kwhite with blue
20000K MHblue
When is supplemental fluorescent lighting desired or needed with metal halides?
Some metal halides produce the proper spectrum of light to stand alone. However, to achieve full enjoyment out of viewing your fish and corals in the colors as they would appear in the ocean at depths of about twenty feet or less, you should use the following guidelines:
5500K MHsupplement with actinic
6500K MHcan stand alone; some actinic enhances spectrum
10000K MHcan stand alone; actinic enhances spectrum
14000K MHcan stand alone; no actinic necessary
20000K MHsupplement with daylight or 50/50
6500K MH Iwasakisupplement with 3 actinics, 1 daylight for best color
50000K MH Iwasaki Aquacan stand alone
Is heat from lighting detrimental to my aquarium?
Heat is not a problem when using RO fluorescents. When using VHO or MH lighting, however, fans should be installed in your canopy. Chillers are not necessary in most areas, although they are recommended for any system where the air temperature in the room housing your aquarium consistently rises above 90º Fahrenheit. Heater settings may need to be adjusted up when adding a metal halide lighting system in order to narrow the daily temperature fluctuation. Temperatures between 79-84º are OK.
How long should my lights be on?
Guidelines for aquarium lighting photo periods are as follows:
actinics12 hours per day
MH supplemented with actinics6-10 hours per day
MH stand alone12 hours per day
fluorescent systems12 hours per day
Example times for a three-stage lighting system:
10:00 a.m.actinics on
11:00 a.m.fluorescents on
12:00 p.m.metal halides on
8:00 p.m.metal halides off
9:00 p.m.fluorescents off
10:00 p.m.actinics off
 
S

sand125

Guest
go with 20g to 30g tank at first and if you like it get a biger tank
 

reeferdawg

Member
55 gal.
432 watt T-5 HO 48"
20 lbs. CC
20 lbs. LS
60 lbs. LR
protein skimmer
fluidized bed filter
pinguin 330 bio wheel
802 powerhead
and looking to get more powerheads
i would like to know what kind of livestock will do good with this light. like corals, anenomes, clams ect....
and if you think of any sugestions i am all ears :help:
 

dme

Member
I am glad to see that someone has mentioned about surge protectors....
I maintain myself all the protection for my tanks for when one has so much invested in some aquarium project(s), specieally if anyone is as heavy into it a myself you do need to look for the best protection for your money.
Another thing is your tank(s) can be wipe out of your life as I know of one the fathers who brings his little girl to the same dance classes where i take my granddaughter that at the back of his 125 reef tank caught fire and the tank glass broke and is how the fire was put out for most of what he told me, he did his connections with cheap extension cords and I wonder of the little protection he said he has for those cheap surge protectors do work, but they not will work time and time again.
he lost his 125 due to not doing all the best he could to protect his tank

 
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